What happens after we die.

[customstuff]

Originally Posted by Silver Sky

That's why through God's word we can determine what happens to us. All the prophecies in the bible have came true and at thisd moment is coming true before our eyes. The bible is real and ther evidence is there. But people turn away from the bible and turn to their own beliefs

The thing is that the only "evidence" for this is a book. That book was written by over 40 authors over the period of about 1600 years. That book also contradicts itself a large amount of times.

There is more provable evidence that evolution exists and there has never been any evidence found that a soul even exists that would go to heaven when we die.

Many people aren't turning from the bible just to be against it. They understand that we don't know what will happen, and they turn to what provides the most factual evidence. The reason things seem to become true in the bible is because it states things that could either be common or have multiple meanings. Text is not evidence for anything, therefore I choose not to believe it. I'm not against you, my girlfriend is Christian, I'm just showing the other side to you.

[SKG_Scintill]

[Silver Sky]

Originally Posted by customstuff

The thing is that the only "evidence" for this is a book. That book was written by over 40 authors over the period of about 1600 years. That book also contradicts itself a large amount of times.

There is more provable evidence that evolution exists and there has never been any evidence found that a soul even exists that would go to heaven when we die.

Many people aren't turning from the bible just to be against it. They understand that we don't know what will happen, and they turn to what provides the most factual evidence. The reason things seem to become true in the bible is because it states things that could either be common or have multiple meanings. Text is not evidence for anything, therefore I choose not to believe it. I'm not against you, my girlfriend is Christian, I'm just showing the other side to you.

I would like to ask where it contradicts itself? Then i could explain to you. because there are many websites that make it look that way when evolutionist like to post all this crap that they don't understand. If evolutionist were so smart at what they know then they could easily answer a series of questions I would have for them. If they could answer them ALL correctly then I would change my beliefs in a heartbeat. But so far a lot of them have failed.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill

I lol'd.

[wargasm1]

Now heres another interesting question, do cats and dogs have an afterlife too?

Also deepak chopra said consciousness is in a different dimension therefore u can kill the brain but not the consciousness. I lost consciousness once and it was pitch black and i woke up like an eternity passed.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Silver Sky

I would like to ask where it contradicts itself? Then i could explain to you. because there are many websites that make it look that way when evolutionist like to post all this crap that they don't understand. If evolutionist were so smart at what they know then they could easily answer a series of questions I would have for them. If they could answer them ALL correctly then I would change my beliefs in a heartbeat. But so far a lot of them have failed.

1) Define "Correctly"

2) PM me what your questions are, not even saying I'll attempt to answer them, but I'm curious what exactly you think you'd need stated "Correctly" to change your mind, and whether it is remotely reasonable as a burden of proof.

[customstuff]

Originally Posted by Silver Sky

I would like to ask where it contradicts itself? Then i could explain to you. because there are many websites that make it look that way when evolutionist like to post all this crap that they don't understand. If evolutionist were so smart at what they know then they could easily answer a series of questions I would have for them. If they could answer them ALL correctly then I would change my beliefs in a heartbeat. But so far a lot of them have failed.

There are so many you wouldn't want to/be able to explain each one...

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

[ELRayford]

Originally Posted by customstuff

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html

[Silver Sky]

Originally Posted by customstuff

There are so many you wouldn't want to/be able to explain each one...

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

So what I got from here is God is NEVER allowed to change his mind what so ever. The bible isn't contradicting itself. You just like to pick a scripture from long ago then put it into the present and say it contradicts itself. I figured you would show this. But I will mention a few since you sent so many. lol For instance Genesis 1: 31 says he was satisfied with all his works. He was. The next scripture was after the fact that Adam and Eve sinned they made their own decision. The sovereignty of Jehovah was challenged so he let man rule themselves to prove they couldn't result? They couldn't. What further caused the problem is because the angels fornicated with the women there so that was the reason Jehovah was not satisfied cause what they have done. Another? Notice you said 2 Chronicles 12,16. You already show that you just pick a part of the bible you like to contradict. Notice verse 14. And I state: and my people upon who my name has been called humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn back from their bad ways, then I myself shall hear from the heavens and forgive their sin, and I shall heal their land. Notice God says "from the heavens". Not that he actually is in the temple. That's where you need to read the entire chapter first. One more for now. Timothy 6:16 is merely talking about that God can not be seen. Psalms 18:11 is David making melody to Jehovah. That's actually what all these scriptures refer to. Nobody has seen god as brought out in John 1:18. This is all for now. I'm not on here very often. I like that you have questions here though. I will answer more when I can if you want. And I had a series of questions starting with a simple one. How was the earth created? I will already know your answers but post them anyways and I will have another

[~kitty~]

What I think is funny is that to really understand what The Bible was trying to say, you would need to understand the original language and understand the time at which it was written. However, this causes some problems with some of the stories in The Bible that actually create contradictions as well, so there are still holes (even with imperfect translations). I'm not going to say I know God doesn't exist, but I will say our interpretation of God certainly can not exist. The proof is in the concept that is contradictory of his own existence. It is possible that someone has a probable reasoning for how God exists, but in the context I write I'm speaking more from what I know of it and popular Religions. That's my two cents.

[kaiten123]

Originally Posted by Silver Sky

So what I got from here is God is NEVER allowed to change his mind what so ever.

not if theres any truth to this:
God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21

but yes if:
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

but either way they cant both be true so the bible screwed up somewhere.

more on the original topic:
personally i imagine that being dead will be remarkably similar to having not been born yet. this view is consistent with all evidence and contradicts none, but i haven't proven it at all and dont see how i could.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by kaiten123

not if theres any truth to this:
God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21

but yes if:
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

but either way they cant both be true so the bible screwed up somewhere.

I'm not saying I would know any better, but I'm sure we all know that The Bible wasn't originally written in English and the best way to interpret the sections is, as stated in my previous post, by knowing the original language it was written. I don't know all of the details, but it was spoken first right? Someone could have changed parts of The Bible before it was recorded, then? I'm just speculating now.

[kaiten123]

Originally Posted by ~kitty~

I'm not saying I would know any better, but I'm sure we all know that The Bible wasn't originally written in English and the best way to interpret the sections is, as stated in my previous post, by knowing the original language it was written. I don't know all of the details, but it was spoken first right? Someone could have changed parts of The Bible before it was recorded, then? I'm just speculating now.

while this is all true, if we assume that current versions of the bible are too far from the original to be relevant to discussion then it obviously blows huge holes in the idea that the bible (or, at least what most people in the world read and call the bible) is from god/infallible and there is no need for discussion in the first place. for this reason, as long as everyone is aware of what you mentioned, it only really makes sense to discuss things as "what if..." the bible were pretty much the same as it originally was (tons of loosely connected desert fables passed down orally and not written down until several generations after).

[ledwix]

Originally Posted by Silver Sky

So what I got from here is God is NEVER allowed to change his mind what so ever.

Monotheists always say God exists outside of spacetime since he created it. So uh, this would bar him from having any emotional outbreaks or decision changes at anything that happened during spacetime. Nothing could possibly be surprising to an all-powerful, all-knowing being. Being displeased with your creation is a sign of lack of omnipotence or just lack of omniscience. Overall, it means that God has failed in some way, which would contradict his theological nature of being perfect.

A being that transcends spacetime could not have delayed reactions to events happening, since he would see all events and know about all events as soon as he created or planned everything. Is a movie director surprised when he watches his own movie and there is a twist at the end? If he is, it is just for effect, not out of the genuine acquisition of new knowledge about the movie plot he himself created and designed specifically to happen in that order.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by kaiten123

while this is all true, if we assume that current versions of the bible are too far from the original to be relevant to discussion then it obviously blows huge holes in the idea that the bible (or, at least what most people in the world read and call the bible) is from god/infallible and there is no need for discussion in the first place. for this reason, as long as everyone is aware of what you mentioned, it only really makes sense to discuss things as "what if..." the bible were pretty much the same as it originally was (tons of loosely connected desert fables passed down orally and not written down until several generations after).

I was just stating something, because we don't know for sure unless we read it in the original language and know its context. You may be right.

Originally Posted by ledwix

Monotheists always say God exists outside of spacetime since he created it. So uh, this would bar him from having any emotional outbreaks at anything that happened during spacetime. Nothing could possibly be surprising to an all-powerful, all-knowing being. Being displeased with your creation is a sign of lack of omnipotence or just lack of omniscience. Overall, it means that God has failed in some way, which would contradict his theological nature of being perfect.

A being that transcends spacetime could not have delayed reactions to events happening, since he would see all events and know about all events as soon as he created or planned everything. Is a movie director surprised when he watches his own movie and there is a twist at the end? If he is, it is just for effect, not out of the genuine acquiring of new knowledge about the movie plot he himself created and designed specifically to happen in that order.

This is what I meant by one of my earlier posts. That kind of God can definitely not exist. You can also assume that existence of a being is impossible outside time and space, otherwise what would have defined the existence of God? There's never a when with God then, and even if he were not made of any type of matter and is outside of our understanding... the whole existing out of time wouldn't make sense unless we took away any human-like associations, then God is completely outside of our reach and would have no care for humans. I'm not sure if this makes any sense but I can't explain how I can say this. I mean, we base our existence on time and our emotions are also based on this, and pretty much everything else about us. How can some being show any "care" if they exist outside of this? Do you know what I'm saying?

[XCV]

I went to a complete wacko fundamentalist Christian school for primary. In one of the science books, it showed a man being formed from water, with the caption "Spontaneous Generation" and the implication that that was what the evolutionists thought. Obviously not all Christians are that gung-ho. However, personally I never understood why the Judeo-Christian religion cluster was so exclusivist, if you will. The idea of "if you don't like my religion then you deserve eternal torment" doesn't make a lot of sense. If there IS a higher power of humanity that created the human race and is supposed to be perfect, omniscient and what-have-you, then (H)he at least shouldn't be jealous as is mentioned somewhere in there.

I'm agnostic, myself. There probably is some deity, or what we'd call a deity, out there, but they probably didn't have any part in creating the human race. It's simple probability - the universe is big enough to generate an environment that can support highly advanced creatures in at least one place, and probably more. I probably won't ever be atheist because of the way I was raised, but that's just me.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by Silver Sky

I would like to ask where it contradicts itself? Then i could explain to you. because there are many websites that make it look that way when evolutionist like to post all this crap that they don't understand. If evolutionist were so smart at what they know then they could easily answer a series of questions I would have for them. If they could answer them ALL correctly then I would change my beliefs in a heartbeat. But so far a lot of them have failed.

Much of the Bible is demonstrably false if you wish to interpret it as a work of literal truth. If you don't wish to interpret the Bible literally, then why bother taking it as literal truth if you accept it's just an allegory?

If you're going to ask for evidence that the Bible is wrong but then say "Well, God should be allowed to change his mind," then you're outright saying that you're not really willing to accept contradictory evidence if you're just going to respond that way to anything presented.

At any rate, fire away at me with whatever questions you have.

[Reincarnate]

Also, a video worth watching (a long talk given by Krauss about cosmology and the nature of our universe -- lots of really interesting points). It's about an hour long, but well worth the watch.

[Reach]

Now heres another interesting question, do cats and dogs have an afterlife too?

It is an interesting question to ask: Why would humans have an afterlife but not other animals?

At a fundamental level, many living creatures have brains. Sure, they're not as complex as ours in many cases, but they have brains none the less and experience some level of cognition. And if we agree with modern neuroscience in that our brains = our minds, then why would we travel to a magical place when we die and not other animals?


The standard answer I usually get is similar to Deepak's: that humans, unlike other animals, have a type of mind/body duality in that we have a spirit or non physical self which in turn is part of/controls the physical self, and this allows us to be transported to the afterlife after death and not other animals.


Putting aside the fact there's no evidence for this/it cannot be proven/other assorted holes:

At what point in evolutionary history did living creates get infused with souls/non physical entities and why? At which point was there a significant enough level of cognition to merit a soul and an afterlife and why was it that the sapiens that came before these lucky individuals did not have souls and did not have an opportunity to experience heaven?

That seems pretty damn trivial to me.

I lost consciousness once and it was pitch black and i woke up like an eternity passed.

I had a similar, scary experience once; I fainted and stopped breathing. My mom is a nurse and was there and apparently I was turning blue and had no discernible pulse. She was about to call 911 but I started breathing again on my own.

Anyway, the only thing I remember is my vision starting to blur and tunnel out, and then 'appearing' on the floor looking up. The two events were entirely contiguous. There was nothing in between and no perception of blackness or otherwise. Just literally one event, and then the next. I had no perception or time or existence in between.

It was weird. I expect that when I die the same will happen.

Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised ;D

But really, what is the physiological difference between death and what happened to me other than that in death, the effect is sustained indefinitely? Having something else happen is entirely contingent on the existence of 'souls' and supernatural factors.

(Some people experience trippy dreams when they pass out, but there's a physiological reason for that too).

[devonin]

If evolutionist were so smart at what they know then they could easily answer a series of questions I would have for them.

And I had a series of questions starting with a simple one. How was the earth created? I will already know your answers but post them anyways and I will have another

Sadly, question number one has absolutely nothing to do with evolution, or the beliefs of evolutionists. Keep trying though. Also, are you going to submit -your- answers to these questions for analysis, objection and scientific rigor?