Why isn't everybody like me?!?

[3Bey]

Do you ever say to someone else, one day, that you love philosophy? Just one time, to see his reaction? If you do, what was it? I can guess a huge silence filled with unease. Or something likes that. Just think it, it’s normal, you’re a weirdo. You like philosophy!

As I gain in maturity, discover what logical fallacies are (called “sophisme” in French), I enter in a beautiful world, filled with logic, with plain and simple logic. I discover how to free myself from being manipulated by others’ opinion. I discovered critical thinking, or philosophy.

But, with it, I also discovered what a bad reputation philosophy has to common people. For a huge majority, philosophy is weird, as well as philosopher. But, for me, what these people are thinking it’s just plain aberration.

The problem is that, like it or not, you can’t free yourself from philosophy. If you have values, or simply take some choice in your life, you’re using “a way to see life and humain”, even if you didn’t realize it. People pray to the god of science, vote, commonly dislike the “bad bad communist” or, (not in my country but in others) think patriotism is one of the best values. I don’t want to argue on these things, but the point is that these people, by doing that, are taking position on the naturalist, Marxist and all the others philosophic theories. They don’t like philosophy, but they can’t help themselves to use it. The difference between them and a philosopher is that they just don’t do it the right way. Their using logical fallacies, like “the guy in a uniform said to me that science was good, so…”, like I did.

But worst, these people judge the action of others. Their judgement lay on values that they just pick from their parent and from society…and they judge the ones that don’t have the same values!

For me, everybody should, at least, try to do some philosophy, or read some. Or at least not pejoratively judge them. But, even if what I just said seems rational and logic for me, I can’t help myself to say that it sounds like: Why isn't everybody like me! So I want others point of views. What are you thinking? Am I right to say that everybody should try philosophy? That philosophy is fundamental?

If this text is illegible, I’m really sorry. You see… it’s hard to write an opinion like this when it’s not in your first language…]

[MarioNintendo]

I like philosophy a lot, too. I agree that most people can't accept its fundamentality. For instance, every science, from Maths to Religion, is built on Philosophy.

Philosophy is pure reason, logic, and rationality. I know I hated it at first because my teacher used to be a big jerk when correcting our papers. However, my next Philosophy teacher emphasized more on the "logical" side of it, not on the "write-what-you-want-and-it'll-suck-no-matter-how-good-it-is" side of it. That way, I could use it everyday in my life, which made it a lot cooler than I thought it was! You can analyze your own habits based on logic, and not on your feelings (kind of what you were talking about in your post). Philosophy isn't about reading texts are sharing your thoughts on them. It's not about the Greek people and their culture. It's not about writing how you feel. At core, Philosophy is to think in order to advance in life, to perceive think logically in order to criticize.

People are blind, that's all. They refuse to agree with a person they dislike because he is hard on them (which is normal, but not a logic thing to do... but how could they know that if they don't try to understand). All they want are easy grades, not to make their intelligence flourish!

I bet you're from Quebec, too. xD

[3Bey]

Luckily I didn't attend a French Cegep: no philosophy class. I don't see anything wrong with people liking philosophy, however.

Good, very good. But the problem is, that's not the same things with everybody. Just go in a philosophy class. My friend even heard, one time: that class is so weird and useless. The name of the class the guy was talking about was Politic and ETHIC. Yes, ethic is so weird and useless...

Well, for now on, I don't seems to have people who disagree. Which is logic: who will disagree on critical thinking in the section of critical thinking...

But that's another evidence of how philosophy is fondamental: you can't say that philosophy isn't fondamental without using philosophy yourself...

But, I will wait, and maybe some people would disagree on the fact that everybody should give a try on philosophy...

Philosophy is pure reason, logic, and rationality. I know I hated it at first because my teacher used to be a big jerk when correcting our papers.

Hum, yeah... that's the matter...

Why so many philosophy teachers are weird? For this, I can't blame the ones that dislike philosophy class if they have a bad teacher. Seriously, I think that the government must put a stronger structure on these classes. The teachers just don't need to have all this liberty. Now, they can do want they want in their class. Some even teach more about the historical part of it, not talking this much about the theories...

I bet you're from Quebec, too. xD

Are you saying that because of this:

(not in my country but in others) think patriotism is one of the best values

Or this:

it’s hard to write an opinion like this when it’s not in your first language…]

?


Haha, yes I am!

Oh, and, Thatskier I really love your picture... remind me of some "divided by zero" joke we did in college...

[Fattychow]

I am buddhist, it is a very philosophical religion which holds no firm belief in the idea of God.

While reading your post here are some things I thought:
As a philosopher you must have, at some point, studied society. and (almost) by definition a society has diversity. Society does not have to hold the same values as you, not everybody will want to be "in - tune" with their philosophical side. As I read your post I thought you were going along the lines of a dictator by saying people should think about philosophy.

Also, not everybody has the opportunity or desire to think about philosophy. A person may be a honest and hard-working and that is enough for them! They don't feel the need to change themselves, they are content as they are. To judge them for not "considering philosophy" or to think you are better than them because they don't "consider philosophy" as much as you leaves them in a much more virtuous position than you.

Anyway, I could write essays and essays about topics like this so better stop!

[3Bey]

Oh! Someone with a different opinion! I love you!

A person may be a honest and hard-working and that is enough for them!

Yes but my main point is that, even if he is honest and hard-working, he can't free himself for judging the others or taking position. Even you, you just take position by saying indirectly that being honest and hard-working are good values. I mean, you can't free yourself from philosophy, so what I say is: please, could you at least try to improve yourself in it.

To continue your example, the honest guy has to choose between being vegetarian or not, where his freedom ends, and what should he do to be happy.

Society does not have to hold the same values as you, not everybody will want to be "in - tune" with their philosophical side.

Yes, and some people have difficulties to deal with authority, but they have to
Others are born (or become like this in their childhood) with a huge temptation of violating children. Do we let them do where their temptations guide them? No. More then this, a lot of people practically think they are the act of devil.

What I try to say with this is that it's not because your not born do to something that you can free yourself of it, especially when it’s fundamental. Also, like I said, everybody do, without knowing it, use philosophy. I know that it’s not everybody who can deal with philosophy with ease, but, just by trying, improving themselves, it would be way better.

So, the dictator that I am is saying that one of the best values we must have, is to seriously think about our values.

Oh and, the fact that you are buddhist don't mean you are a philosopher. The fact that you chose to be a buddhist after aknowledging their arguments is more appropriate. Because, mostly everything we believe is "very philosophic".

[Im Vince]

Haha, a thread about philosophy in quebec cegeps. Let's see.

The first course of philosophy in french cegeps is interesting, because it is pure thinking and logic.

However, the second course is terrible, considering that all you do is study other's thoughts on one question (What is man?). Yourself don't have to think much, or at least during the course.

The ethic course is great though, nothing to be said about this one.

Besides, the philosophy teachers are extremely hard to please, since they have studied for like what 8-9 years in philosophy. They know what it is, and expect something out of their students. Since most of us don't give a f*** about that course, we don't give them what they want.

This is pretty much the most important reason why most of us, quebec students, don't like philosophy: teachers.

[3Bey]

This is pretty much the most important reason why most of us, quebec students, don't like philosophy: teachers.

Yes, that's right. (oh and even the second class depend on the teacher. I just have it last session and I REALLY enjoy it. On the other hand, the first session was complete bulshit: philosophy teacher have too much control on this...)

But what I talk about here is bigger than just quebec cegep. I understand why some student in quebec don't like their philosophy class, but I think that everybody (even the others that have finish cegep or never went to) in every country should give a try.

[Artic_counter]

lol 4 québécois francais dans un meme thread (mario, bey, vince et moi xD)

The thing is; you can't reproach people of not being perfect, which in your case is people seriously considering philosophy. You can work toward that goal but making it an obligation is basically ruining the freedom we are entitled to. It's basically Asian parenting.

As for math being built on philosophy I'll have to disagree. Sure both math and philosophy study logic but I think it's a little bit to far fetched to say philosophy is the beginning of everything. Axioms are what's fundamental about math. Sure philosophy covers almost everything but it isn't the beginning of everything.

P.S.: Both philosophy class I took in Cegep were ****ing amazing. My teachers (especially the first one) were downright amazing.

[3Bey]

Well, ok, I agree that we can't make everyone to consider philosophy. But, my point is :am I right to think that everybody SHOULD try philosophy? Like I can say that everybody SHOULDN'T kill other people and still agree that some will do.

And I can reproach someone of killing someone else (I'm sure you do), so why can't I reproach someone of not using philosophy?

Hein!?! Kessé que t'a à répondre à ça, calice? (je blague, évidemment)

[iironiic]

I'm actually considering taking my first philosophy class next semester since it has been an interest of mine ever since I entered college. From what I've heard, philosophy is an academic area that challenges one to use words to prove a proposition (Very similar to math proofs seen beyond the calculus sequence). My only turnoff with philosophy is that it generally involves a thorough vocabulary to bring a point across (something I have never been strong at and wished I was). Any advice for those that are weak with vocabulary, yet have a strong interest in philosophy?

PS: I was considering majoring in it at one point, but decided against it.

EDIT: I've seen "quebec cegeps" mentioned a few times. Can someone explain what this is? xD Sorry that I'm not Canadian (yet) x]

[Artic_counter]

Because you can still function in society and be useful even if you do not study/use philosophy a lot. There is no need forcing it down people's throat even though it would be a nice thing.

So sure you are right of thinking it would benefit people, but there are also other things to consider.

Edit : The most important part is to know the structure of your proof. Where are you going to go to achieve what you want to demonstrate. After that you just need to try to explain it using key word like "therefore" and such. It doesn't need to be all complicated. Using simple words is almost always the best solution. I don't think it would be a problem for you iironiic xD It is very similar to math. Though it can be a bit more tricky sometimes because there is a lot of "noise" with word which is something we do not have in math.

Even though it would be highly interesting you did well. You can basically do nothing with a degree in philosophy. Except teaching xD.

Edit 2 : Cegep are basically something we have between highschool and college. We only have 5 years of highschool and after that we can choose whether to continue or to drop. The next step is Cegep. Which takes 2 years to complete or 3 if you want to enter the workforce in a specialized area without going to college.

[Cavernio]

I am so not contributing anything worthy of CT by posting this, but I took a guy home once purely because I found out his major was philosophy...course I was drunk at the time.

Also, am I a bad person for imagining your accent when reading your posts? All your little grammatical mishaps make so much more sense to me then.

I've never taken a philosophy course. I probably should have, but I guess I chose music as my arts electives instead.


Cegep is basically schooling beyond gr 12 that is almost like college. It's just the way quebec works. Ontario used to have a grade 13 too.

I had a friend who did computer science and who took a first year philosophy course, and found that like over half the philosophy course was just the CS Discrete Structure courses using language. If you have a good grasp of mathematical proofs, then you are probably not going to learn anything for a logic philosophy course. The CS class which I too took really tied together math and language and logic in a nice little package, really easy to grasp even though math proofs before then were this strange thing I felt I should understand but never made any sense. (But I also think my Dad may have designed the course, so that may have been why I found it structured so well, we probably think a like.)

I think the name of the class my friend took was spefically called Critical Thinking in fact

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by Artic_counter

Edit : The most important part is to know the structure of your proof. Where are you going to go to achieve what you want to demonstrate. After that you just need to try to explain it using key word like "therefore" and such. It doesn't need to be all complicated. Using simple words is almost always the best solution. I don't think it would be a problem for you iironiic xD It is very similar to math. Though it can be a bit more tricky sometimes because there is a lot of "noise" with word which is something we do not have in math.

Even though it would be highly interesting you did well. You can basically do notting with a degree in philosophy. Except teaching xD.

Haha ok, I have taken many proof-based math classes and I am liking that a lot more than the applied math classes. I think part of the reason why is because I like to prove my arguments, regardless of using words or numbers. A degree or at least a minor in philosophy would definitely be very interesting to consider with a math degree. :3 Thanks for the advice :]

[3Bey]

So sure you are right of thinking it would benefit people, but there are also other things to consider.

Yes but to consider these thing you have to do philosophy.

For me, every person that try to influence the society should do some philosophy, or else he would try to influence other peoples on something that is weak. So, ok, don't do philosophy, but do nothing to influence my life and my society. Nothing. That's kind of difficult...

And, more than that, if the people succeed and don't influence the society, well it's ok for me if they don't want to try philosophy. But, you agreed on it, philosophy could have benefit. So why do we just try to "convert" everybody to do philosophy the best we can

Also, you can agree that everybody want some change in the society. Want to make others change their life, depending of their values. Have ideals. Well, for me, the first values the society should try to get, is, like I said, to think seriously about their values. Isn't legitimate?

Also, am I a bad person for imagining your accent when reading your posts? All your little grammatical mishaps make so much more sense to me then.

LOOOOL! No, of course not! XD

(and sorry again for these mishaps...)

Accent makes people look intelligent? No? XD

(and with the picture of Marx, the illusion is perfect!)

Oh and, iironiic, for me, people that are REALLY curious will sure love philosophy. It's like, getting deep in everething we know...

[ledwix]

If I meet someone who likes philosophy, it's a usually a sign that he/she and I will be close friends.

One of my friends took a philosophy class and hated it. She says it's "useless, because you just argue in circles and never get anywhere." Another couple of friends took philosophy of mind and also disliked it for its abstract nature. I took a class and was fascinated, although I never considered majoring in it.

I like the point you make about how philosophy is ultimately UNAVOIDABLE unless you are a vegetable or don't ever think about your life ever. The way we organize our lives and pick our values is our philosophy. The fact that philosophy includes ethics and values, art and aesthetics, politics, epistemology, and metaphysics shows how inclusive a field is. Everyone has opinions on these things.

In my view, people who dislike the subject generally do so on the grounds that it is "useless," meaning that they choose to stick to the practical world. To that type of person, choosing a life plan and sticking with it is best, since proceeding as if you have everything figured out already is more comfortable than considering the idea that you could come to different conclusions if you rethought your axioms and conclusions at this point later in life. To me, it is never too late to consider the difficult questions posed in this field. After all, being old doesn't mean you've figured everything out already, though old age seems to cement people's ideals as unshakable in their minds.

[Izzy]

I don't know anything about philosophy other than what the term means, but it seems a lot better to me than those highschoolers or even college students who say they are into photography and expect everyone to believe they are deep and thought provoking.

[Cavernio]

"The way we organize our lives and pick our values is our philosophy. The fact that philosophy includes ethics and values, art and aesthetics, politics, epistemology, and metaphysics shows how inclusive a field is. Everyone has opinions on these things."

Ah, but the scientific way to study all these is not philosophy but social sciences like psychology and sociology.

[3Bey]

Ah, but the scientific way to study all these is not philosophy but social sciences like psychology and sociology.

Some people don’t realize it but, it's the naturalist that created science. What is the naturalism? A PHILOSOPHY that said that we can discover the world with some experimentation. That the entire world is material and that we can understand it. That, even the humain was a subject of experimentation. That the entire world was functioning with some rules, that we need to discover. Philosophy created the "experimental method". It's this method that make the science so dam good.

see below:

1. Use your experience: Consider the problem and try to make sense of it. Look for previous explanations. If this is a new problem to you, then move to step 2.
2. Form a conjecture: When nothing else is yet known, try to state an explanation, to someone else, or to your notebook.
3. Deduce a prediction from that explanation: If you assume 2 is true, what consequences follow?
4. Test: Look for the opposite of each consequence in order to disprove 2. It is a logical error to seek 3 directly as proof of 2. This error is called affirming the consequent.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

[ffraxis]

Pople are not like you because:

other humans do not love you entirely, and thus they can never be "one" or considered the same or an entirely similar entity.
other humans already have something else, themselves, and they will never let go of that bit which is consistent of something universally unique, which provides for the spectrum of emotions to mix with the ego.
other humans do not want to be like you, because you are not like them. The same reasoning applies to yourself, since other humans are not like you, you may not want to be like them. You may want to take some aspects that in your perspective provides an advantage, but you may never want to try and take everything.

[BeatofIke]

It's who are are, we're humans.