6 Key FFR

[Oni-Paranoia]

This is horrible, -1 support

[Im Vince]

this is awesome, +10,000 support

[Kairon]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

This is horrible, -1 support

Originally Posted by Im Vince

this is awesome, +10,000 support

This is the Swiss, -9999 support.

We like things neutral.

[bLasTamos]

Make the new engine able to read the current 4-key files alongside 6-key files, separate stats for both mods (ie. AAA count and FC count on your profile) and I'll support this. Only play 6-key files if you want, let those who'd like to see 6-key files happy.

Btw what's that external app thing? Downloadable FFR which you can run from your desktop?

[stargroup]

blastamos we're hoping for that, that would be optimal. since they are completely different play styles it only makes sense to have separate stats.

also the two of you who didn't support, it would be nice if you gave your input, in case there was something I overlooked

[Ice wolf]

Originally Posted by Kairon

This is the Swiss, -9999 support.

We like things neutral.

This is America. +∞

We like to **** things up.


On an unrelated note, FFRock is actually more fun than I remember. Now if only we had one more arrow...

[Kairon]

Originally Posted by Ice wolf

This is America. +eleventy bajillion

We don't understand numbers.

Fix'd

On a semi-related note, I suppose I'll give moderate support to this 6 key concept. (Although, let's be honest, what exactly are the odds that 6 key FFR will A: be implemented, B: work, C: be accepted by the community at large, and D: become successful enough to justify its own existence?)

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by Kairon

Fix'd

On a semi-related note, I suppose I'll give moderate support to this 6 key concept. (Although, let's be honest, what exactly are the odds that 6 key FFR will A: be implemented, B: work, C: be accepted by the community at large, and D: become successful enough to justify its own existence?)

0.0001% out of 100%

A: FFR already lacks the amount of people who would even want to code this

B: I assume it would work the same as 4 arrows with all coding added on for the 2 extra ones

C: 50% of the community is inactive, 25% Can't even pass 8's, 20% of active members are douche bags, 4% actually care about this place, 1% like solo

D: The 1% I mentioned above would love to have this for themselves not caring if 1 million people joined.

E: This won't happen and this thread will go nowhere considering 4 arrow is more important and there needs to be 932489284 updates to that before 6 key is looked upon.

The end

[dood gone krazee]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

0.0001% out of 100%

A: FFR already lacks the amount of people who would even want to code this

B: I assume it would work the same as 4 arrows with all coding added on for the 2 extra ones

C: 50% of the community is inactive, 25% Can't even pass 8's, 20% of active members are douche bags, 4% actually care about this place, 1% like solo

D: The 1% I mentioned above would love to have this for themselves not caring if 1 million people joined.

E: This won't happen and this thread will go nowhere considering 4 arrow is more important and there needs to be 932489284 updates to that before 6 key is looked upon.

The end

You must be part of that 20%.

[stargroup]

Originally Posted by Kairon

Although, let's be honest, what exactly are the odds that 6 key FFR will A: be implemented, B: work, C: be accepted by the community at large, and D: become successful enough to justify its own existence?

A: not likely unless we give it all the support we can
B: definitely will work as long as we try to get it coded and such
C: this won't be a problem at all. the main issue is that most people don't even know about this
D: see C

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

A: FFR already lacks the amount of people who would even want to code this

B: I assume it would work the same as 4 arrows with all coding added on for the 2 extra ones

C: 50% of the community is inactive, 25% Can't even pass 8's, 20% of active members are douche bags, 4% actually care about this place, 1% like solo

D: The 1% I mentioned above would love to have this for themselves not caring if 1 million people joined.

E: This won't happen and this thread will go nowhere considering 4 arrow is more important and there needs to be 932489284 updates to that before 6 key is looked upon.

The end

A: just the opposite. the flash developer, nsane, just showed his support for this idea
B: what does this have to do with not supporting the idea
C: 98% of the community don't even know about 6 key play, so OBVIOUSLY you wouldn't know whether they'll like it or not. and you bet they will once they know about it
D: oh believe me, this is my idea, and I want to spread 6 key happiness to everyone on earth. if that's what you're thinking then you have the completely wrong idea
E: this might happen if we put enough work into it and 4 arrow has reached a dead end. people are now vibrating scores, and almost every stepping technique known to man has been attempted. 6 key is the only place we can go.

sorry guys, none of these arguments are valid enough except for "it might not happen," and I'm not sure about that one.

[cedolad]

Against Stargroup's E (though I still give support): What happens if we go as far as we did in 4, in 6? We go to 8?

[stargroup]

Originally Posted by cedolad

Against Stargroup's E (though I still give support): What happens if we go as far as we did in 4, in 6? We go to 8?

yep, although that won't happen in a long time, since 6 keys are exponentially more expansive than 4 key. 4 key community has been here for what, 6 years? 6 key will be here for at least 10 years. more keys = more possibilities

updated faq

[TC_Halogen]

As far as people saying that new players would not want to do it, it's a completely opinionated statement--some people who come across a variation of a game that they play are more likely to play that version.

Don't know if I said yes or no to it before, but I play Solo now, it's an awesome game, charting is so much more fun, songs are much better represented, the list goes on.

+1 support.

[stargroup]

before you come up with your arguments in which you decide NOT to support this, ask yourself this: "do you play 6 key?"

sounds stupid but unless you play it for yourself, can you really understand the appeal?

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by stargroup

A: just the opposite. the flash developer, nsane, just showed his support for this idea
B: what does this have to do with not supporting the idea
C: 98% of the community don't even know about 6 key play, so OBVIOUSLY you wouldn't know whether they'll like it or not. and you bet they will once they know about it
D: oh believe me, this is my idea, and I want to spread 6 key happiness to everyone on earth. if that's what you're thinking then you have the completely wrong idea
E: this might happen if we put enough work into it and 4 arrow has reached a dead end. people are now vibrating scores, and almost every stepping technique known to man has been attempted. 6 key is the only place we can go.

sorry guys, none of these arguments are valid enough except for "it might not happen," and I'm not sure about that one.

A: Oh yay one guy woohoo now let's hope he does everything on top of what he's doing now
B: It actually goes towards the idea, it's just the input in comparison to the original B
C: 4 Key is what's put out there, 6 key is more frustrating especially for the ones who don't can't even read 4 key
D: I can almost guarantee new players aren't gonna want in for 1. The amount of popular 5 key games that are everywhere now 2. It's not like it's completely comparable to DDR (Solo was never really put out much) 3. Read 1 and 3 again
E: Actually, some games die and people move on to others. There are enough other games to move onto.. GH, GF, IIDX, DM, ITG and the other 5 and 7 key games that are on the internet now -.-'

Honestly, I don't get what's so fun about solo compared to Beatmania or PIU.. I mean, let's compare now..

What makes Solo better than other 4+ key games?? And if it's not about it's better than them, then why try to motivate people to support this for FFR??

4 Key is at a 'dead end' but it started when music games weren't to popular and now they are all over the place and many people just look at what has the better songs now, so good luck with good permission from 'popular' artists.

P.s. I noticed my GF plays Jamlegend > FFR even though she only plays wit 4 buttons, just because the noteskin lol... So it's NOT just my opinion, it's also my observation of others, just into how Solo would work more than it would than on SM..

/Longest post

[stargroup]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

/Longest post

holy crap I can't believe I'm replying to this big-ass post

A: perhaps, but at least one of the most important people showed their interest. it makes it THAT much more possible
B: uh, okay?
C: well obviously we're gonna have easy 6 key files for those starting out. again, you can't assume anything
D: again, you don't understand the appeal because you don't play. also realize that 6 key ffr will be available to anyone with internet, not everyone (very few people actually) can play the fancy bemani games and such. and obviously you can't compare it to ddr I don't know why you brought that point up
E: yes, but does that mean you want ffr to die and all of us to move on? this will benefit ffr by bringing new audiences, more interest, and it's certainly not comparable to other 5 and 7 key games, so once again why would you bring that up

I will state yet again, not everyone can play the bemani games and what not, but 6 key ffr will be available to almost everyone. on top of that, although I'd rather play games like Pop'n, 6 key ffr/stepmania does come pretty close, and all my rhythm game interest roots from this game.

and about music, we do have plenty of great music permissions, but people are either ignoring them, not attempting them because they're too hard, or some other reasons

also I don't understand the point of your postscript, it doesn't really explain anything

obviously you're being mistaken about why this is important to ffr and what the appeal is. there is nothing you lose by supporting this, you gain a new way to play the game. a lot of people barely know what 6 key is and they still support it because there's really no real reason to reject it

[insanefreddy926]

Originally Posted by Oni-Paranoia

Honestly, I don't get what's so fun about solo compared to Beatmania or PIU.. I mean, let's compare now..

What makes Solo better than other 4+ key games?? And if it's not about it's better than them, then why try to motivate people to support this for FFR??

4 Key is at a 'dead end' but it started when music games weren't to popular and now they are all over the place and many people just look at what has the better songs now, so good luck with good permission from 'popular' artists.

Yeah you're probably right. If people don't have access to a IIDX machine or a modified PS2, or they can't stand the arrow placement of PIU, or they only want an experience akin to four key but more fun and challenging, they should just sit around and do nothing instead of playing solo. Using your type of logic, you basically want FFR to die.

And last time I checked, FFR already has multiple permissions from "popular" artists.... although the music from most of the "unpopular" artists make for much more fun simfiles.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by stargroup

holy crap I can't believe I'm replying to this big-ass post

A: perhaps, but at least one of the most important people showed their interest. it makes it THAT much more possible
B: uh, okay?
C: well obviously we're gonna have easy 6 key files for those starting out. again, you can't assume anything
D: again, you don't understand the appeal because you don't play. also realize that 6 key ffr will be available to anyone with internet, not everyone (very few people actually) can play the fancy bemani games and such. and obviously you can't compare it to ddr I don't know why you brought that point up
E: yes, but does that mean you want ffr to die and all of us to move on? this will benefit ffr by bringing new audiences, more interest, and it's certainly not comparable to other 5 and 7 key games, so once again why would you bring that up

I will state yet again, not everyone can play the bemani games and what not, but 6 key ffr will be available to almost everyone. on top of that, although I'd rather play games like Pop'n, 6 key ffr/stepmania does come pretty close, and all my rhythm game interest roots from this game.

and about music, we do have plenty of great music permissions, but people are either ignoring them, not attempting them because they're too hard, or some other reasons

also I don't understand the point of your postscript, it doesn't really explain anything

obviously you're being mistaken about why this is important to ffr and what the appeal is. there is nothing you lose by supporting this, you gain a new way to play the game. a lot of people barely know what 6 key is and they still support it because there's really no real reason to reject it

A: True, but aren't you either Loved or Hated? (No in between?)
B: ---
C: Even so, imo why move on to something that gets more 'difficult' if you can't take on an easier task
D: I actually have played, first time being at ~Zero~'s house and wrecking the songest hard he passed on his first day within my third song.. Honestly, I play Solo here and there, but why move it from SM elsewhere..
E: I compare to it others because it's 'SOLO' and I still don't get why bring in 'SOLO' when it can just be left to SM

You say support because there is no reason to reject the idea, then yet I strongly feel like why try to implement this when there are still ideas that should be implemented in 4 key.. Such as other noteskins, more mods, other themes?

I feel like there isn't enough attention on 4 key to actually have another type of 'FFR' up and running. Even if so, once everyone realizes how hard it is to actually get there people become lazy etc etc and it goes nowhere..

No I'm not going to support this, because (Yes you've been waiting for this)

1. Not enough people that know/understand how to implement this would probably do it (finish it)
2. Not everyone has access to other 'fancy' games but like i stated, there is many flash games on the web that have 4-8 key usage. (Myspace, JamLegend etc)
3. I don't find solo any more fun than any other 4+ key game therefore why am 'I' going to support it, I just don't feel like it's needed or really wanted..


EDIT:

Originally Posted by insanefreddy926

Yeah you're probably right. If people don't have access to a IIDX machine or a modified PS2, or they can't stand the arrow placement of PIU, or they only want an experience akin to four key but more fun and challenging, they should just sit around and do nothing instead of playing solo. Using your type of logic, you basically want FFR to die.

And last time I checked, FFR already has multiple permissions from "popular" artists.... although the music from most of the "unpopular" artists make for much more fun simfiles.

It's called, DL SM or play some other rhythm game you can probably find on many other websites.. or another game in general..

P.s. I noticed throughout the last 4 years that most new players don't care for on-sync steppable music, they just want something they can enjoy listening to. (a.k.a. Konami is doing the smart thing with putting famous artists songs in DDR, all though the songs are so stupid to be stepped)

=o $$

[Xiaounlimited]

Originally Posted by stargroup

they still support it because there's really no real reason to reject it

Some people simply don't care. Oni doesn't find it fun, plain and simple. No matter how well crafted something is and how many reasons you can list about why said entity is so great, people won't necessarily like it. You could rant to me about how great StarCraft/DotA/whatever RTS games are because of balancing factors etcetc and I'd never like them. So on the contrary, there may also be really no real reason to support it for a lot of people. Ground zero.

People who've played 4k before solo would be less inclined to try it and get discouraged more easily because:

1) Singles skill does not really carry over to solo. You might pass Disregard singles with a AA but fail Chocolate Disco solo. That annoys a lot of people because they figure if they're good at singles they'll be good at solo.
2) It takes a lot longer to get accustomed to note placement. You're going to get BS misses for a good while until you completely adjust to it. Another annoyance.
3) The sheer fact there are more keys is scary. It isn't necessarily accurate to assume it's harder simply for that fact (in fact, solo is much easier than singles in many ways) but because most players here are 4k players it's going to happen.

You can probably list more reasons why, but saying there's no reason to reject or not support is poorly justified regardless of how revolutionary or fun solo is. That's not to say these are sound reasons, but they are reasons nonetheless.

With that said I still think solo rulz but I'm trying to keep a neutral ground here.

[Patashu]

actually singles skill helps a lot with solo. it's an expansion on your singles knowledge and skills not a complete relearning, for instance whenever patterns confine themselves to four columns you can apply your singles muscle memories to it, patterns that stick to five columns are only a bit more complicated, etc