World of Warcraft

[Mr.Nothing]

I can't remember the last time wiping was blamed on me and it wasn't my fault, but i'm guessing that's because i'm a Resto Shammy.
Chain Heal spam ftw.

[Grandiagod]

"Need heals for KT"
"SUR I'LL CUM"

We end up killing him after two attempts because void zones are apparently really attractive for all the melee.

Helm Drops, I win roll.

Other holy priest I was healing with starts RAGING over vent "He only came here for last boss, he doesn't deserve the loot I was here since we started!" To which I kindly point out they couldn't have killed KT without me. He responded "We could've gotten any crappy healer like you!"

I link recount. 5 healers, i'm doing 27% of the healing. I'm last on overhealing.

I carry raids bro.

[Sir Psycho]

Loot is loot is loot. Only time I have a small problem with it is if an off spec person rolls against a main spec person in raids.

[Tokzic]

Originally Posted by Grandiagod

"Need heals for KT"
"SUR I'LL CUM"

We end up killing him after two attempts because void zones are apparently really attractive for all the melee.

Helm Drops, I win roll.

Other holy priest I was healing with starts RAGING over vent "He only came here for last boss, he doesn't deserve the loot I was here since we started!" To which I kindly point out they couldn't have killed KT without me. He responded "We could've gotten any crappy healer like you!"

I link recount. 5 healers, i'm doing 27% of the healing. I'm last on overhealing.

I carry raids bro.

rofl i love people who nerdrage when they don't get a piece of loot they really want then try to justify that they deserve it more than whoever won it

GUYS THAT WAS HIS FIRST KT KILL AND I'VE DONE IT LIKE FIVE TIMES NOW AND HE'S ALREADY GOT A SHADOW SET SO HE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TWO SETS AND I'VE GOT MORE ACHIEVEMENT POINTS THAN HIM SO I AM CLEARLY MORE DEDICATED TO THE GAME WHY DID I NOT GET THAT HELM

I AM OPENING A TICKET THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS

[devonin]

And that is why I just run with my guild, and two other guilds that I know aren't spanks.

We could do raids on group loot with no problems, because we're just not greedy stupid idiots.

[Grandiagod]

My guild doesn't run Naxx anymore :P

Or really anything before ulduar

[tsugomaru]

I think Grandia already mentioned it, but i'll elaborate anyway. I don't think a holy paladin should be able to roll on cloth gear if that cloth pieces is best in slot for a holy priest. If the holy paladin wins it, it will eventually be replaced and that's a piece of loot sitting in his inventory when it could be used by a priest.

Grandia, that argument about carrying a raid only works if you're comparing yourself to other raid healers. You can't possibly expect a main tank healer to out heal you. Their only job is to keep the main tank alive and more likely than not, the main tank will be taking less damage than the raid.

~Tsugomaru

[Squeek]

We've had a dilemma over loot rules for a while now, and we've come to a pretty good conclusion on how to do it (we think).

1) If the stats all line up for you and it's a main spec upgrade, roll on it regardless of whether you've won something earlier in the run.
2) Because we like to keep the loot spread out so one person doesn't win every roll, anyone who rolls against you with a lower number of "wins" will take precedence.
3) Regardless of when you enter the raid, these numbers apply.
4) Tier tokens apply as well (we just changed this rule--tier used to be a separate main spec roll)

We've had people come for just one fight, but here's how we look at it: You asked them to come, and they wouldn't have come if they couldn't get loot. Did you think they were just there to look at the pretty bosses? As long as they don't absolutely suck (read: disobeying the 10-yard rule on KT repeatedly), they deserve the item just as much as anyone else.

By the way, I hugely disagree with rolling on lower armor classes in your main spec roll. It's just not fair. Clothies can only roll on cloth gear. So, they get one set of possible loot. Leatherbies can roll on cloth and leather, so they get two sets. Mail on three, so three, etc. That means holy paladins get four separate loot tables to roll on in addition to being the only class that can roll on plate heal gear? That's not fair. Only let this happen if the main-spec person (aka priest) doesn't want it.

In other news, some weird stuff is going down on our server. Our guild leader has the networking skills of a god and managed to line up all the best people who weren't in raiding guilds to come with us. He has like 40 of these people on his friends list who are ready to come at the drop of a hat. So if we lose someone to "gotta go dinner bye" or "my guild wants to start a raid sorry", we just pop them out and pop someone else back in.

So anyway, these people eventually came to hate their own guild and love ours, or their guild disbanded, or something else happened. We didn't really want to expand, but in the course of just a few days, we've more than doubled our member list. We can do a full 10-man guild run now. Yay.

[Tokzic]

Our guild does silent-bid DKP, and I don't understand why Devonin hates it so much. It disperses the loot pretty equally, and then you don't have questions like "okay well this cloth piece is that priest's bis but it's a huge upgrade for the pally who has been coming to all our raids" that are hard to figure out. With DKP, it's simple - bid points. If you bid the most points, you get the item, regardless of the situation. To earn DKP, come to raids.

I mean, with rolls, someone could be very lucky and get tons of gear, and they could never come to raids ever. With DKP, the people who show up a lot get better loot faster, which makes sense, since you want the people who show up a lot to be your best for progression's sake.

And of course, we handle our DKP intelligently. If we don't have enough people to raid, we get a DKP bonus just for showing up. If someone who has never run with the guild before comes to fill in, they get a modest amount of DKP for their trouble so that they get a piece of gear or two.

It works out and there's never been an argument in the three months I've been in my guild.

[devonin]

By the way, I hugely disagree with rolling on lower armor classes in your main spec roll. It's just not fair.

Upgrades are upgrades, and it isn't actually a given that the best-in-slot paladin healer plate (which will have sta/int, spellpower, and/or crit/haste/mp5) will actually be -better- than a piece of say, caster cloth with sta/int, spellpower, and/or crit/haste/mp5)

To be completely honest with you, the most compelling fix for this issue would be to make all healer gear -cloth- and give druids/shamans/paladins a boost to their armour gained from items commensurate with the armour boost from leather/mail/plate slapped on as a free addition to a deep-healing tree talent.

Taking a quick look at the item rankings on maxdps.com for holy paladins, the best-in-slot, non-tier helmet, shoulders, and bracers are mail, and the best-in-slot non-tier, pants and boots are cloth. By forbidding holy paladins to roll on mail or cloth unless nobody else using mail or cloth wants them pretty much just holds them back from getting their best-in-slot.

If your and my best-in-slot item are the -same item- why should you get precedence over me to roll on it? Because I can 'settle' for more pieces of worse gear than you? Underneath those best-in-slot mail/cloth items in several cases are more mail and cloth items. How far down do I have to settle? The top -4- shoulders for holy paladins are mail, mail, plate, leather

Our guild does silent-bid DKP, and I don't understand why Devonin hates it so much.

I don't so much hate DKP as I do hate ever playing with the kind of people for whom dkp is at all necessary. I play with reasonable, mature, logical people who can just -talk- about the drop and come to a perfectly acceptable conclusion as to who ought to be rolling on the gear.

If I roll in for one fight and something I want drops, and someone else is jumping for joy because they've been trying to 2 months to get that drop, I'm going to just -not roll on it- because I'm not a jerk, and I don't need gear so bad as to screw someone out of something they've been really trying to get. The natural consequence of "Not being a greedy jerk" is that the people who show up the most see the most drops, and thus get the most drops, so the ones who "show up a lot" get the best geared the fastest -anyway- without needing to give them a point system.

To me the DKP system is necessary if your raids contain a) greedy people, b) unreasonable people and/or you have a raid leader who has control issues.

In the whole time I've been playing WoW, I've never been in a guild using DKP, I've never run with a guild using DKP and I've never had ANY problems, let alone arguments, over any piece of gear from anything. Your mileage clearly vaies.

[tsugomaru]

If the best in slot cloth item is for both holy paladins and priests, then I would have no problem with you rolling against me. However, if my best in slot cloth piece is really a side grade for you and there exists multiple leather, mail, and plate pieces that are far superior to my item, you shouldn't be able to roll on it (which is usually the case). As I said before, if the piece goes to me, I'll be using it for the rest of the content. If the item goes to you, then there's a chance that your best in slot will come by and you will replace the cloth piece.

So tonight, our guild took a vote to see whether or not we want to blaze through the content or try several hard modes. Most of the people voted to try the hard modes. We accomplished the Flame Leviathan hard mode (you get 2 Badges of Conquest instead of just one!), but the rest of the night wasn't so awesome. We tried to down the heart on XT several times on the first pass, but despite bringing slightly better dps, we kept falling 20k short. After several intentional wipes on XT, we were feeling tired and just decided to finish up Ignis, Kologarn, and Auriaya and called it a night. We attempted the Assembly of Iron a couple times, but it was pretty clear we lost our focus. Our off tank was eating too many of that huge lightning hit.

~Tsugomaru

[Squeek]

I'd never outright forbid them to roll on those things, but they'll drop again. The precedence should go to clothies because they have no other choice. You have other upgrades in that ilevel tier; they don't.

We tried Hodir tonight and got wrecked four times in a row. He's impossible. Now post telling me that my guild sucks and how Hodir was a one-shot for you and how he's ridiculously easy, because I know you will.

We got Thorim down with little troubles. Just had to keep trying different group combinations of 4/6 until we had the right setup. All we have left is Mimiron, Hodir, Vezax, and Yogg.

[Tokzic]

I had the most hilarious raid yesterday by the way.

The 25-man couldn't go threw because all our officers were busy and there wasn't enough people on the list anyway. So we form a 10-man group, starting at 9:00 server.

Downed the first four bosses in under an hour.

Left IC up to do his Hard mode later this week.

Downed Kologarn, Auraiyiayiayay, Hodir, Freya, and Thorim in about an hour and a half. Three bosses left, and it's only 11:30 server.

Then we wiped on Mimiron for a half hour before giving up because two people would ALWAYS DIE TO MINES ON PHASE 4 AND TWO PEOPLE DYING BASICALLY MEANS YOU LOSE.

GAH MIMIRON.

Originally Posted by sqk

We tried Hodir tonight and got wrecked four times in a row. He's impossible. Now post telling me that my guild sucks and how Hodir was a one-shot for you and how he's ridiculously easy, because I know you will.

this is directed towards me isn't it

[tsugomaru]

Yah, Thorim is pretty simple. Our guild decided to try him one hard mode this week.

I agree, Hodir is difficult, but by no means is it completely impossible. We did it with just me raid healing and two paladins. The hardest part of the fight were the Frozen Blows and that was a nightmare to heal through. In fact, our tank made frost resist gear just for this fight to help us out.

~Tsugomaru

[devonin]

I'd never outright forbid them to roll on those things, but they'll drop again. The precedence should go to clothies because they have no other choice.

So you would in fact tell a plate-wearer to not roll on their best-in-slot gear because it happens to be made of cloth?

[tsugomaru]

I'd need an example of such a case. All best in slot plate drops I've seen is far better than any of my cloth.

~Tsugomaru

[devonin]

Holy Paladin shoulders, best in slot and down, according to maxdps.com:

Pauldrons of the Combatant - Mail
Amice of the Stoic Watch - Mail
Razorscale Shoulderguards - Plate

[tsugomaru]

None of which are cloth.

EDIT: Well, okay, you gave one example, but what I'd really like to see is one comparing plate to cloth. I have yet to find a cloth item that's superior to a plate piece.

~Tsugomaru

[devonin]

Boots of Fiery Resolution, despite having spirit, are still best-in-slot boots for holy paladins. Number 2 and 3 are the plate and leather crafted Ulduar boots, so there's some great leather for paladins too.

Edit: And besides, it's less about instances of concrete cases where the best-in-slot for a plate wearer was not plate, but the general impression I got that EVEN IF the best-in-slot for a plate wearer was not plate, Squeek still doesn't think they should get to roll the first time it drops.

More other edit: Interestingly, every single resto shaman best-in-slot is mail.

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by devonin

Interestingly, every single resto shaman best-in-slot is mail.

I don't see why that's surprising. We can't roll on plate and all leather/cloth has Spirit, which is completely worthless to us.