For FFR [10 or 11]

[rushyrulz]

For FFR and Southern Cross are the only Very Challenging songs with a maximum of 5 tier points while all the others have a maximum of 4.
The Ending of For FFR is worse than the wall in Skeletor because of speed and spacing + framers.
It's a blue note file with more frame issues than you can shake a stick at.

Main reasoning here is that if it's good enough for 5 TPs, it's good enough to be called an 11. Same goes with Southern Cross, but that's a different thread.

[stavie33]

totally an 11. One of the only 2 VC's I can't AAA, and the only one that isn't due to a background and off syncness, the roll wall and inverted rolls are harder than stuff in most low FMO's. The rest of the file is piss easy, but that wall is long enough, and it's change to inverted rolls make it harder than Novo Mundo and Heavenly Spores (two other predominantly easy files with some single hard parts that are NOT anywhere near as hard as For FFR's). Take 300 for example, song is undeniably VC till the end, but that end, although longer, is not as tricky as these roll walls. And blue note syndrome. How is this not harder than 0 (piano version) and Disconnected Hardkore? Seriously? This should be low FMO, but not even the lowest. It will take me forever to fix my 2 boos.

[Anaru]

I think it's a solid 10.
The same argument goes for Skeletor I guess..

The song is relatively easy except the hard part at the end. And even then, the ending isn't very fast. Skeletor is an 11 because the roll part is faster, and the rest of the song is faster than VC songs in general.

For FFR is a solid 10 because of its other parts that are not as hard (I would even say the song is a 9 or less without the ending.)

If you look at other songs like Bus Rides With People, Didj PVC, Twelve, and some other VC's, they require much more pattern knowledge and speed than For FFR. The only reason why For FFR is a 10 is because of the ending. No need to bump it to a 11.

[bballa48]

11. Mid 11. Heck, take the isolation file with just the ending and it is still an 11. The ending is so far and away harder than every pattern in every single 10 that we have in the game. It is slow enough that it can't be cheated, yet fast enough to demand incredible roll control. Plus, the transition from 1423 to 1234 is nasty.

[DossarLX ODI]

For FFR's ending is actually very bizarre in the sense that its ending is a GIGANTIC frame interval mess. The split rolls are littered with a mix of 1-frame and 2-frame intervals. Also, you cannot rely on the music in that part either. The song is playing at 16ths while this part was stepped as 24ths.

Edit: Turns out the file plays at 180 bpm. Well yeah, 270 bpm 16ths don't work out so well in terms of split roll frames.

Also, the roll in the beginning (148-171 combo) also is a gigantic mess of frame intervals. This file is very hard to score on if you're trying to go for consistency. I personally have to look out for 1 frame intervals because going constant makes it too easy to split goods from how the frames work out.

I wouldn't mind this being put as a low 11.

[qqwref]

For FFR is not all that bad to hit, I guess... but PAing and AAAing is a super huge bitch. I know of several players with 5+ FMO AAAs who don't think they're capable of nailing this one without massive luck. And in the old Tier Point list (which is still in use ._.) it was given more points than several low FMOs. I think it's definitely an 11.

[DossarLX ODI]

For FFR turns out to be more gallops than actual split rolling if you're trying to score on it.

[rayword45]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

For FFR's ending is actually very bizarre in the sense that its ending is a GIGANTIC frame interval mess.
Edit: Turns out the file plays at 180 bpm. Well yeah, 270 bpm 16ths don't work out so well in terms of split roll frames.

180/30=6

Unless I've been misinformed about frame issues my whole FFR life, then this = WTF!?

[DossarLX ODI]

Not sure what you're trying to say with that, rayword. 180 bpm 8th notes are all 5 frames apart. However, 24ths means 2 notes in between those 8ths, and that obviously won't have nice placements.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by rayword45

180/30=6

1800/180 = 10
So the 4th notes are 10 frames apart, which means 16th notes are 2.5 frames apart (half chance of 2-framer, half chance of 3-framer) and 24th notes are 1.66666 frames apart (1/3 chance of 1-framer, 2/3 chance of 2-framer).

[DossarLX ODI]

Going into intervals:

For the first two pictures, red is for up/right and yellow is for left/down.

For the third and fourth pictures, red is down/up and yellow is left/right.

For the fifth and sixth pictures (last two), same as the first two pictures.

The frame intervals should be easy to distinguish with the difference in the slant of the lines. This is basically why the file is more about "gallops" since trying to do constant will make you rush the 2 frame intervals and split the 1 frame intervals that are a lot faster. (2 frames = 225 bpm 16th, 1 frame = 450 bpm 16th)













So yeah, I think it should be an 11 from this.

[Anaru]

Lol now that I see it the frames look so screwed up ;c

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

What dossar said

[igotrhythm]

Yeah, it's a mess when you dissect it like that, but it's not so obvious during play. Framers do start to come into their own in VCs and up, but as extreme as the case of the rolls is, the rest of the file is sufficiently easy to keep this in 10 territory.

Hyrogashi would be so damn proud right now. That file was supposed to be pretty much impossible when it first came out (recall how many people had FMO AAAs when Otaku Speedvibe was released). To know that it's still ragebait to this day...

[Elite Ninja]

Originally Posted by qqwref

For FFR is not all that bad to hit, I guess... but PAing and AAAing is a super huge bitch. I know of several players with 5+ FMO AAAs who don't think they're capable of nailing this one without massive luck. And in the old Tier Point list (which is still in use ._.) it was given more points than several low FMOs. I think it's definitely an 11.

I have over 25 FMO AAAs and I can't even SDG For FFR (just got 12-1-0-0 on it recently and its the only VC I haven't SDGed). I have also SDGed near 50+ FMOs (not sure exactly how many). For FFR definetly should be an 11...... but I would rather much rather just see it removed from public ranks and moved to token ranks like many other songs should be.

[EzExZeRo7497]

270 BPM is quite a lot of speed demanded for a VC.

Like kono spoon, it can't be jumptrilled.

For that ending only... 11.

[hi19hi19]

If we're talking ability to achieve good PA/AAA, this song is clearly an 11.
If we're talking ability to pass/read/FC, then this song is just a high 10.

The ending is not too bad in terms of speed required, it only feels like an FMO if from the viewpoint of trying to PA it.
But it is definitely FMO from that viewpoint lmao

I vote +1 to making it FMO, seeing as the ratings at the higher end of difficulty usually are predominantly based on difficulty to PA/AAA.

[bmah]

A reminder to some people...please include a reason/argument to accompany your opinion. "definately an 11" is insufficient content for a post for example.

[Jerry DB]

sorry just figured everyone covered why, it's an 11 because the ending is a bunch of hard to hit random frame rolls and would I can think of about 30 master songs that are easier to aaa then ffr.

For ffr is usally most players worst level 10 song also on their level ranks, it's been around forever too and has less aaa's then some master songs that came out YEARS later, with less gameplays

[SK8R43]

In my Opinion, For FFR is not an 11. I have 4-1-0-1 on It and did it with One Hand, come on people its really not that hard. I can AAA the ending just about every try but the rest of the file is dumb. Just my 2 cents.
Edit: @ bmah- I just find that the ending is not that hard, it might be really really fast which could make it an 11(which i dont mind either way) But the patterns arent difficult to pull off even with the framers issue. Sorry if you dont like my 2 cents lol
All in all doesnt matter to me, could possibly go both ways but imo its more of a high 10