TWG CLXV Postgame

[AragakiAyase]

both the posts were linked in wolfchat that charu saw, so no it wasn't a coincidence I don't think

[inDheart]

from deadchat: (cut out the more irrelevant stuff)

[2:22 AM] AragakiAyase: Interesting find
[2:22 AM] AragakiAyase: Charu saw sunfan browsing the twg thread just now
[2:23 AM] AragakiAyase: And looking at the post where he voted yoshl(edited)
[2:23 AM] AragakiAyase: Charu is now convinced sunfan is wolf
[2:32 AM] DaBackpack: how do you know this about charu?
[2:33 AM] AragakiAyase: He told me
[2:33 AM] AragakiAyase: Wanted to know if it was angleshooting to use that
[2:33 AM] AragakiAyase: I said it's not
[2:33 AM] AragakiAyase: Also LOL
[2:33 AM] AragakiAyase: He's nailing wnb
[2:33 AM] AragakiAyase: For viewing the same post as sunfan
[2:34 AM] AragakiAyase: If you think it's angleshooting please say so
[2:34 AM] AragakiAyase: And it was never even mentioned
[2:34 AM] AragakiAyase: But lurker used this reasoning against me
[2:35 AM] DaBackpack: tbh i think that's angleshooty but i don't think it's fair to penalize charu for it
[2:35 AM] Wolfe: I don't think it's angleshooty enough to punish
[2:35 AM] AragakiAyase: People use people's online status as reasoning all the time
[2:35 AM] Wolfe: Exactly
[2:35 AM] AragakiAyase: It's fair game as far as I'm concerned
[2:36 AM] AragakiAyase: It's a gray area
[2:36 AM] DaBackpack: I guess, just seems like using "out of game information" to me
[2:36 AM] AragakiAyase: But it's accepted so fine by me
[2:36 AM] DaBackpack: yeah can't complain
[2:36 AM] AragakiAyase: Well if people fuss about it we can discuss later
[2:36 AM] DaBackpack: I don't really care
[2:36 AM] Wolfe: Doubt anyone will lol it's used like every game
[2:36 AM] AragakiAyase: Yeah
[2:36 AM] DaBackpack: really? wow
[2:37 AM] AragakiAyase: Yep
[2:37 AM] Wolfe: It's bad reasoning so nobody cares much
[2:37 AM] AragakiAyase: Never as the final factor usually
[2:37 AM] AragakiAyase: But it always comes up
[2:37 AM] DaBackpack: seems rather finicky
[2:37 AM] AragakiAyase: "x was in the thread and left"
[2:37 AM] DaBackpack: "this person was viewing thread in the middle of the night phase"
[2:37 AM] DaBackpack: ergo wolf
[2:37 AM] Wolfe: Such bad
[2:37 AM] AragakiAyase: I mean lurker literally said that to me
[2:37 AM] inDheart: i say no it is not angleshooting, the site allows you to see the info after all
[2:37 AM] AragakiAyase: And nothing happened
[2:38 AM] inDheart: MU has it disabled for this reason
[2:38 AM] AragakiAyase: "AA was in thread pre nightkill flip"
[2:38 AM] AragakiAyase: "so he is probably wolf"
[2:38 AM] AragakiAyase: I wasn't
[2:38 AM] AragakiAyase: So lol
[2:39 AM] AragakiAyase: Oh man charu saw that sunfan and wnb checked the same two posts
[2:39 AM] AragakiAyase: Loooooool
[2:39 AM] Wolfe: Yeah lol I remember Haku and MML always taking screenshots of the bottom and saying something ominous about remembering who was in thread at a given time
[3:06 AM] AragakiAyase: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9-03-06-18.png
[3:07 AM] DaBackpack: wait you can see if people are viewing specific posts?
[3:07 AM] DaBackpack: I thought you could only do that for threads o.O
[3:08 AM] AragakiAyase: You can through their profile
[3:08 AM] DaBackpack: wow holy shit
[3:08 AM] AragakiAyase: They're clicking on links being posted in wolfchat
[3:08 AM] DaBackpack: that's a game changer
[3:08 AM] inDheart: i bet they're linking individual posts in
[3:08 AM] AragakiAyase: Mfw
[3:08 AM] inDheart: yeah
[3:08 AM] Wolfe: They should've logged out tbh
[3:08 AM] AragakiAyase: Yeah
[3:08 AM] DaBackpack: sunfan is going to be pissed the fuck off
[3:08 AM] DaBackpack: I don't really blame him
[3:08 AM] AragakiAyase: Tough
[3:09 AM] DaBackpack: to see SPECIFIC POST VIEWING
[3:09 AM] DaBackpack: that actually ties the wolves together
[3:09 AM] DaBackpack: like being online, yeah sure
[3:09 AM] DaBackpack: but seeing two people viewing the same post
[3:09 AM] DaBackpack: that's actually rather admissible evidence
[3:10 AM] inDheart: the links, man
[3:10 AM] Wolfe: I couldn't fault someone who read into that, so I turn it off. They should've logged off lol
[3:10 AM] DaBackpack: I don't mean to belabor the point
[3:10 AM] AragakiAyase: This is rather incriminating
[3:10 AM] AragakiAyase: I'm going to allow it though because again I think it's legal
[3:11 AM] Wolfe: Lmao yeah I guess wolves will have to be more careful in the future.
[3:11 AM] AragakiAyase: The only way to solve this if people want to solve it
[3:11 AM] AragakiAyase: Is ban reasoning about this
[3:11 AM] AragakiAyase: But people will still think it
[3:11 AM] Wolfe: It's legal because there's no way to prevent it in the rules
[3:11 AM] AragakiAyase: So lol
[3:12 AM] DaBackpack: I don't disagree, entirely
[3:12 AM] AragakiAyase: I think it's fine tbh
[3:12 AM] DaBackpack: but ideologically it seems like a huge flaw of the system
[3:12 AM] AragakiAyase: Yeah agreed
[3:12 AM] Wolfe: There's literally no way to stop it. Wolves will simply have to be logged out and be more careful in the future
[3:12 AM] inDheart: there's a way to class it as angleshooting but then that means you just get ~creative~
[3:12 AM] inDheart: plus it's a condition of the site we're on
[3:12 AM] DaBackpack: you're solving the game by viewing wolf night actions (i.e. reading the thread)
[3:12 AM] DaBackpack: it shouldn't be possible to introduce information into the game via night phase imo
[3:13 AM] AragakiAyase: People can flip tables in postgame
[3:13 AM] DaBackpack: I know, you can't punish this
[3:13 AM] DaBackpack: it should be lega
[3:13 AM] DaBackpack: legal
[3:13 AM] AragakiAyase: Kinda funny the charu just solved the game though
[3:13 AM] DaBackpack: but I think this behavior, when practiced, violates the spirit of twg
[3:13 AM] AragakiAyase: And he's never the nk here
[3:13 AM] AragakiAyase: Yeah I agree
[3:13 AM] Wolfe: I agree
[3:13 AM] inDheart: CHARU
[3:14 AM] Wolfe: But the spirit of TWG isn't gonna stop people from abusing it, and there's no way to stop em in the rules
[3:14 AM] DaBackpack: I mean, if Charu presents visual evidence, town literally wins?
[3:14 AM] inDheart: also keep in mind, it's not like he 100% knows he's right
[3:14 AM] Wolfe: He just literally broke FFRTWG lmao
[3:14 AM] DaBackpack: that's true, but it's Charu, so he's gonna tunnel hard as fuck
[3:14 AM] Wolfe: Wolves will have to be 100% more careful, thats the only solution
[3:14 AM] Wolfe: Holy shit lmao
[3:15 AM] inDheart: i always read on incognito for nights as a wolf
[3:15 AM] AragakiAyase: Me too
[3:15 AM] AragakiAyase: Lmao
[3:15 AM] Wolfe: Yeah I'm paranoid like that too
[3:15 AM] DaBackpack: I mean that's fair, when you KNOW about this flaw
[3:15 AM] AragakiAyase: This is why
[3:15 AM] inDheart: and i don't reread at night as town anymore
[3:15 AM] AragakiAyase: Me too
[3:15 AM] DaBackpack: but sunfan's wolf game was pretty much entirely fucked by a forum flaw

[Litodude]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

both the posts were linked in wolfchat that charu saw, so no it wasn't a coincidence I don't think

o word

[FreezinIce]

Going into today I didn't suspect lito at all and would have not turned on him if not for the strange events that happened

Good game to wolves, keeping me off of you for 3 phases was really well done sunfan and I suspected wab only by virtue of him living so long to the point of suspicion

[AragakiAyase]

rip choof's wolf meta

forever

[thesunfan]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

Welp

TWG Pandora

Charu opened Pandoras box with this play and introduced a new way of angleshooting that I never even considered existed

Not sure where I'm wrong about that sunfan

I don't even know if its angleshooting honestly
I should've walked away from my laptop earlier
I was just posting off of raw emotion in a bad way
I feel bad about it

[FreezinIce]

I am sad that it got so personal though. And it seemed like people were legitimately not having fun

[AragakiAyase]

I think flaming is always part of twg, but I like it more when it stays below a certain level

[Charu]

Thanks guys, I feel a lot better now.

I really did think if it was good or not. I even said to AA I was going to do what I was thinking originally, but...

...

I chose not to because I felt like there was no way I could change someone's opinion on me.

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I don't even know if its angleshooting honestly
I should've walked away from my laptop earlier
I was just posting off of raw emotion in a bad way
I feel bad about it

if you define angleshooting as it's defined in the rules (which I checked lol), then no it's technically not I don't think. is it against the spirit of the game? yeah. is it OGI? maybe idk, it's a consequence of FFR forums

[Charu]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

I think flaming is always part of twg, but I like it more when it stays below a certain level

And yeah, I agree, the hurls early game made me very uncomfortable.

[Lightknight924]

I think Charu did solid work. His post was the savior of the game.

[FreezinIce]

I'd like to apologize to gradient for aggrivating him. I would love for that to not be the last game we ever play together and hope he comes back someday

[andy-o24]

What are the boundaries on out of game information? If it's out of current game only, then shouldn't that exclude bringing up posts from other games? I know that kind of ruins the spirit of meta analysis, but it seems like a huge grey area.

-o24

[thesunfan]

it is incredibly reassuring to see deadchat immediately realize the gravity of the issue
thank you for your discussion

[FreezinIce]

Haku went 2/3 in his world but he could not get over charu lol.

[mellonxcollie]

gg guys <3

This was a pretty intense game but I think everyone played well and I've got no hard feelings against anybody. honestly I'm glad this game is over so we can move on to the next one ~

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

I think flaming is always part of twg, but I like it more when it stays below a certain level

same

i think my opinion showed

[Charu]

Originally Posted by inDheart

same

i think my opinion showed

Yeah, I think there was a post where were in distaste about early game.

It was a good post, heh

[FreezinIce]

Bleh.

The game ending makes me feel bad on a level I can't control.

The fact that I had to sit thorough all that abuse from sunfan and have him give me the runaround for 3 days and not get to lynch him is the source I think