TWG LXXXVII: Cloverfield POSTGAME!

[Makilaz]

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn

im confused as to why iggy seered me red and didnt tell anyone?

He told me, which is why I vigi'd you.

[Viccica]

Well that was a fun (but short) game.

Afro, if you're going to call someone out (Ruritsu and myself), use names. We all know who you're talking about.





Sorry I wasn't as active as I usually am. =/ Been busy, first week of classes and such.




Sorry I doubted you, iggy.. :3

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Viccica

Afro, if you're going to call someone out (Ruritsu and myself), use names. We all know who you're talking about.

I'm quite sure you two weren't the only ones I attacked during the game. I was referring to EVERYONE I attacked during the game, and frankly, I don't even remember who all it was. Coming up through the last day, I was definitely throwing some choice words at fiction and redherring. Some of the things I said referred to you two specifically, but I mean it in general, especially the example of being aware of how posts look in connecting wolf-compatibility. You should be aware of the other players in game that you may become associated with.

It's not even just advice intended for humans. Wolves should be even more aware than anyone else what the implications of the things they say are. Everyone just needs to be extra aware of implications of what they say. Try just re-reading a post before making it with an objective point of view. Try to understand how players with other roles will view it upon reading it the first time. Try to understand how players with different information available will understand it. Try to understand how it might look if re-read later in the game.

[iggymatrixcounter]

long post coming, I'll explain EVERYTHING.

Good game guys, things went perfectly.... well almost lol. I'll post later.

[RedHerring]

When I saw "Cloverfield: POSTGAME" I was so surprised, and I thought the wolves won.

I'm still confused of why iggy lied about Psychic results in Day 1 (saying that Lito was a human)

I'm glad iggy choosed A2P as the lynching target in the last day. That was a good move at the end, although I didn't see too much basis on why we should lynch him.

Fun game, althought I started to be active Night or Day 2. In the first two phases nobody seems to be thinking anyhting about the game

And I'm not that grandpa, Clari.

[Bolth mannn]

Originally Posted by RedHerring

I'm still confused of why iggy lied about Psychic results in Day 1 (saying that Lito was a human)

it was Day 2, and i believe manti had already died, so he was making up psychic results, i think...

we'll wait for iggys post.

[iggymatrixcounter]

HAHAHAHA!!!! Yes that was awesome.

Ok now I can up front with you all about what was REALLY going on this game.

I originally did not think lito was a wolf but after corpse looting his body and finding the camera, I sensed that he could have been. (The camera gave a human/non human result so it was aimed to find blues more than humans and wolves.) Plus lito's whole, "I'm going to vote myself to insta myself so my wolf friends can get my item" trick did not work because you cannot vote for myself. This is was a theory that I had but it was not strong enough to tell the thread that he was a wolf. I'm actually laughing that he was because at the time, I did not think he was but I insta'd him and corpse looted him SECONDS after I killed him. Very awesome to find the camera.


I used the camera night2 on roundbox and it came back human (which was 100% guaranteed since even the MW would have come back nonhuman. From that point on, I was bouncing ideas off him and telling him what I thought about certain things. I sent him ALL my information, via PM's in case I died, he would be able to use my info to keep the alliance going. A few people were given passwords in case roundbox wanted to confirm his leadership to them. It was a good situation. The only catch was that as long as I was alive he could not look at the PM's. He agreed with this and even though I told him some things, I doubt he knew EVERYTHING, but he had the information if he wanted it. It was a good system imo.


That same night temote and maki got items and temote came to me and I asked him to use it and tell me the results. I really needed to know where the gun was, if I asked temote to give it to me, I would have had to wait until the next night to use it. (He could not give it to me and use it in the same night, so meh it worked out good.) Temote told me maki had the gun and I contacted him as soon as I could.


I told maki to kill bolth because I seered him red. This was an unofficial way imo to “seer” maki as there are not many people who would be willing to vigi kill their own wolf friend.

Also I kept maki's gun and bolth's wolf seering a secret because I wanted to test whoever had the gun, to see if they would actually use it to kill a wolf. (If a wolf had the gun, they could kill me by using it along with their wolf pick, and the guardian would not be able to stop it.... so that was worrying me for awhile) Once I found bolth, I kept him for maki to kill to test him out without having to seer him. This proved to me like 90% that maki was human. However I had to make it look random because I thought that if the thread knew i told maki to kill bolth, maki would be wolfed. So sorry I kept that underground, like I said, I was protecting maki from the wolves.


I kept the psychic reports going to give the illusion that he was still alive. I did not count on the fact that the result was a total wolf population, I thought it was a card flip so that's why I gave it as one, and I thought that the wolves knew I was bs'ing it, but it helped me confirm afro more because he kept talking about the psychic and my results, so he acted genuinely fooled and therefore that rested my fears that I had seered the MW. Looking back, I probably should not have lied about this, but it helped feed the fact that maki was helping me out BIG time.

@afro: sorry for keeping you out of the loop this game, I wanted to work more with you but I figured you were MW. But I did want you alive because I invested a seer pick in you, you were worth being alive to me. And I was looking at your list of things that you call “mistakes” and I see my name in most of them lol, but you have to admit, I was getting wolves killed. I may not have known 100% that they were wolves (save for bolth) but I knew they were top suspects, even if I never gave my reasons. Lito I think was all you though, but towards the end of day1, I was beginning to think he was a wolf just seeing how he was dying and especially after I found the camera.

@ fiction: your poison really REALLY sucked but it helped me to almost confirm you and ruritsu as humans because there was no way a wolf with something to lose would come at me the way you two did. And you really helped with emerald because if you did not vote for him when I told you to, I do not think he would have died.

@ ruritsu: While I NEVER thought you were a wolf this entire game, your anger and persistence on the last day confirmed it, and I was not going to let you die, I fought and fought on AIM for a2p to keep you alive. You may not agree with my style, but you have to admit, I saved you from being killed and hit a wolf while doing it.

@ maki: you did a great job staying under the radar. I did not really give you anything but I think you were the only person that knew I seered bolth. Thanks for being loyal in keeping that to yourself. I wanted to protect you and I think it worked out pretty well imo.

@roundbox: dude.... awesome job hiding in the dark. When people came to me telling me, among others, that you were "out of the loop" that made me so proud to have chosen you as my number 2 man. If I died, I would have had full confidence in your ability to lead my under ground alliance I set up for you.


@vic: thanks for calling me a terrible seer XD. I hope you realize that most of my public tactics were a big ruse, in reality I had everything under control. My only fault with you is that you did not come to me until late. Which I guess is preference, but if I seered you it would have been a waste and I would have been a little mad.


@emerald: dude I thought you could be a wolf but was REALLY surprised to find out I was right. You had me fooled, but not enough to avoid total suspicion. Inactive wolves are easy to find for a seer, even if the thread never looks at you.


@a2p: the conversation I had with you gave you away imo. You tried to come off as an apathetic human but I took it more as a wolf that was caught and was not giving up any information.


Now it is true that I was pretty much the only human making any mistakes. I mean I was lying and shrouded in secrecy, shutting down the flow of information, but that's just my style as an alliance leader. I apologize to anyone who I angered this game. I only do it because, most of the time, I know exactly what I'm doing and do not need a lot of input to find wolves. It's good to know that while a few people hated it, the thread at least trusted my judgement. People like fiction and temote helped me lynch the best targets (emerald and a2p respectively), even though you did not think they were wolves. You went against your gut feeling and it helped out a lot. People like maki and roundbox kept it on the down low to protect vital information and other players.


If there are any other questions that I did not answer or need explained. I will tell you anything and everything you want to know. De-briefing is important to become a better player, especially if you had no clue as to what was going on.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Lito dying was all me

ALL ME

To be completely honest, the wolves had the absolute worst luck this game. Their item holder died d1 before he could use it, and then it got corpselooted by the seer (of all people). Their inactive got seered right away, and the two least obvious wolves got thrown under the bus with no confirmation whatsoever.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Oh btw, the light was what temote had. It told you who had the items. That's how I found maki and his gun XD.

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Mistakes:

#7: Naming me and manti day 1 was a VERY bad idea. The execution was TERRIBLE and naming us both SHOULD HAVE made it clear that BOTH of us were in on something or would soon be in on something.

I completely agree with this one. I immediately regretted naming manti. I tried to make up for it by saying I thought he was a wolf, but I had to try to keep him alive any way I could because he was a HUGE risk to die during the night. I would have never seered him, even if he was not the psychic. If he lived long enough, I would have just had him lynched, he's too risky imo any way I sliced it.

Originally Posted by emerald000

1- I still don't get why iggy was faking psychic results..... That lie only hindered humans.

I knew it would hinder us, but think of it as more to confuse you guys when the whole vigi kill came around. But like I said, looking back, this was something I should not have lied about, but hindsight is always 20-20 XD.

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

keep you alive to gather more info, I suppose. kill you later through vigi

it was a good idea if he had his sights on emerald but that doesn't seem like it was the case?

I did have my sites on emerald, but it was more of my experience of how a lot of wolves play their game than actual, objective information.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by iggymatrixcounter

@roundbox: dude.... awesome job hiding in the dark. When people came to me telling me, among others, that you were "out of the loop" that made me so proud to have chosen you as my number 2 man. If I died, I would have had full confidence in your ability to lead my under ground alliance I set up for you.

No.

You cannot commend a person for doing **** in the thread. I don't care what the **** your secret bull**** was, what he did in the thread should NOT be allowed.

And iggy, the reason I mentioned you so much tied all back to the one point of you lying for no good reason. We already knew manti was human when he died, you might as well have just told ALL of us that the psychic was dead too, since the wolves figured it out INSTANTLY. You don't ****ing lie about psychic results, that ****s everything up. Had we not gotten lucky with lito day one, or you with a2p on the last day, we would've been having a REALLY hard time figuring **** out through all of the lied role reveals. Well, that and I'm still pissed off that you thought it was a good idea to name manti and I day 1. VERY stupid, and I'm sure you realize it helped lead to manti being killed. Instead of giving us the BS about the guardian, you should have mentioned offhand that manti was suspicious (similarly to how I was PERHAPS), and not mention me at all. Like I said, you were toying with me as being MW, so me getting wolfed wouldn't have been bad, ESPECIALLY if me dying would have meant the psychic lived! You too need to be aware of the implications of what you say though. Look at what you say from an outside perspective so you can be sure you're not tipping your hand.

the thread at least trusted my judgement

At the end there, man, I didn't really. If I had been around, I wouldn't have voted for a2p. You gave us NO reason to (other than "because I said so"), and others had pointed out that freaky dropping out was typical of him being green.

People like fiction and temote helped me lynch the best targets

oh come on, I was the driving force behind emerald, I went for lito (to break a kib if I recall), and not to mention me being uppity about bolth too

:'(

[DarkManticoreX2]

Personally I don't think it mattered that Iggy named me at the end of d1. I talked with Freaky after he subbed out, and he told me that they had wolved me because they knew the psychic report would show a dead wolf (Lito) and that would immediately clear me and Temote of our original suspicion. Since i was the one to go after Lito, that would have confirmed me as a human and freaky said it would have been a pain in the ass to take me out from that position.

So yeah i don't think Iggy's post mattered.

Originally Posted by Afrobean

At the end there, man, I didn't really. If I had been around, I wouldn't have voted for a2p. You gave us NO reason to (other than "because I said so"), and others had pointed out that freaky dropping out was typical of him being green.

Freaky tries to sub out when it would be advantageous for him to look like a green. He's done it on multiple occasions when he's been a wolf. I woulda recommended freaky to be looked at later had i been alive, because he wasn't being his usual paranoid posting every three seconds self.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Ok first off, yes I did say that the psychic lying was a bit of a mistake on my part.

And yes I agree that mentioning manti was a huge mistake as well.

But you were NOT the driving force behind emerald, bolth, OR lito.

For instance, you were the ONLY vote on emerald for most of day2. A lot of people had already voted so they did not believe you at all. In fact you and fiction both had two votes on you at the time. (And a lot of others had just 1 vote). I picked emerald and went to fiction and told him that he should vote for him, and that created the three way tie and then I put the third vote on him. And, to my knowledge, no one knew that that's how it went down. Plus I believe your words for that day's lynch was something like, "wtf you guys are stupid for letting a three way tie go down, good thing iggy was there to break the tie!"

And while you did vote for bolth day1, you switched your vote to lito after a lot of people had already voted for him. (if anyone was responsible for lito's death, it's proably temote and manti as their info led to the initial suspicion of him. I mean how many people would have even LOOKED at lito if they had not revealed that info about gun?)

And if you still thought bolth was a wolf, you were hiding it very well because you proceeded to railroad ruritsu after wards. I, on the other hand seered him that night because I thought he would have picked gun as his wolf target since they were both fighting about movies night1. And I do believe that you called my seering bolth, "a stupid idea to even pick him!"


afro, you are a good player. I truly believe that, but do not belittle everything I did as stupid or accident just because I just adhere to a different style and belief system for this game. We both have played games where we rocked and owned everyone so it's not like one of us has to prove anything to the other.

Think of it like one of us is tass and the other is talisman. Both awesome, both completely different.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by iggymatrixcounter

But you were NOT the driving force behind emerald, bolth, OR lito.

Never said I was the "driving force" behind bolth or lito. I only said that I was "uppity" about bolth and that I "got behind lito".

For instance, you were the ONLY vote on emerald for most of day2.

I'll stop you right there.

Think for a moment. If I hadn't hammered on emerald and subsequently voted for him, would you have ended up voting for him that day? Would fiction have? Would anyone have bothered to give emerald a second thought if I hadn't went ape**** all over him?

Plus I believe your words for that day's lynch was something like, "wtf you guys are stupid for letting a three way tie go down, good thing iggy was there to break the tie!"

That was partly my show (that was the post where I subtly hinted being blue), but yeah, it was foolish of THEM to allow that to happen, but the lynch went through anyway thanks to you saving me. It started with the seed of my hammering, and you followed through on it with your desire to save me and whoever from kib, and fiction's willingness to do as you said in that case finished it. It was the three of us really, but I don't think it would have happened if my first act hadn't preceded your two parts.

And while you did vote for bolth day1, you switched your vote to lito after a lot of people had already voted for him. (if anyone was responsible for lito's death, it's proably temote and manti as their info led to the initial suspicion of him. I mean how many people would have even LOOKED at lito if they had not revealed that info about gun?)

I didn't say I was responsible for it, just that I was on board with it, particularly at a crucial time: my vote on lito broke what would have been a kib between lito and manti. And my initial vote on bolth was meant as my final vote and I didn't expect to be there at end of day, but I ended up managing it and found manti at danger of dying and I knew lito was a better lynch option than manti. I really would have been totally content lynching bolth day one though.

Really, I was just like "huh what" when you named people who had been critical to getting wolves lynched but apparently didn't deem me worthy of any mention. By the end I can see where one might think my wolf-sniffing skills were faulty, but the endgame proved I was doing great early on.

And if you still thought bolth was a wolf, you were hiding it very well because you proceeded to railroad ruritsu after wards.

I set my mind on holding off of ruritsu at one point, and was looking forward to jumping all over bolth the next day, only to find he got vigi'd through the night. So I just reverted to my next best choice (even in spite of me thinking I'd probably be dead at that point if he were a wolf), and me re-reading the thread just incorrectly cemented me in this notion of ruritsu as a wolf. If I had known we only had one wolf left, I probably wouldn't have thought on ruritsu so hard, because I was working on the idea of ruritsu paired with viccica (which, frankly, you could have cleared up by just telling me to trust viccica). I guess you didn't have time to anyway though since that was the last day, huh.

I, on the other hand seered him that night because I thought he would have picked gun as his wolf target since they were both fighting about movies night1. And I do believe that you called my seering bolth, "a stupid idea to even pick him!"

Uh... yeah, it was a bad choice. We should have just lynched him regardless. Waste of a seering to seer someone who is already worthy of a lynch on their own.

Seering picks should be people who aren't anywhere near the lynch lineup. It's just lucky we were able to nail wolves in our lynches the first 3 days, and that paired with your seer/vigi made it possible for us to get all 4 in only 3 days. It worked here to expedite things, but overall general tactic, should be to just lynch players in situations like bolth and save seerings for less readable players.

afro, you are a good player. I truly believe that, but do not belittle everything I did as stupid or accident just because I just adhere to a different style and belief system for this game. We both have played games where we rocked and owned everyone so it's not like one of us has to prove anything to the other.

I didn't say anything to "belittle" you other than you lying about the psychic and naming manti and I. Oh, and your seer choices weren't the best in my opinion, but we ended up getting pulling out probably the fastest 4 wolf game ever. That's actually what I'm most amazed with I think. Even in spite of all the things I find faulted in this game, we still got through 4 wolves in 3 days. Ridiculous.

Think of it like one of us is tass and the other is talisman. Both awesome, both completely different.

I never liked Tass's playing style personally.

Originally Posted by roundbox

What did I do in the thread that "shouldn't be allowed"?
Just for clarification, not argumentative purposes.

Not post at all, save for a single post per day phase with zero content and a safety vote.

That's bull****.

How would you feel if all ~16 of us played like that? The day phase consisting of 10~15 safety votes and no discussion at all. You think the game would be very fun? I don't give a crap if you were chatting on aim to a single person behind the scenes. Posting in the way you did is unacceptable. Activity isn't just reading, it's not paying attention, it's not chatting, it's active engagement in the public discussion.

edit: huh? Roundbox's post is gone. Oh well, it's immortalized forever now in my post.

[Bolth mannn]

lol iggy seered me cause I fought with gun about movies lol.

If i remember correctly, iggy, when you sent a PM asking me to go on AIM, that was after you had seered me...what exactly were you planning on saying to me?

[FictionJunction]

I'm still pretty shook up about the whole ordeal.

I do want to clear my name though. As I've told others already, it wasn't my objective to get iggy lynched. That would have been stupid. Yes, I was angry and, yes, I wanted to be involved - especially after 'proving' my humanity through very unconventional means. In the end, the point was to segregate players into groups and see what others would do if they even considered iggy as a wolf. I mean, everyone I spoke with had a pretty standard response:
if not directly involved: no way .. could it be?! ****.
if directly involved: meh, I see your point but you should chill out.
if a wolf: .. change of topic. (I mean, a wolf would know that'd I'm not going to get anything accomplished and he would assume that enthusiastically hopping in would cast suspicion on himself)

I relied on iggy's public information and the little I could get from everyone else (which is why I tried avoiding A2P despite getting the latter response). I know I inconvenienced you, iggy, but I didn't really like you. Especially after cutting that "deal" with me. It just made me all the more suspicious and, frankly, was a deliberate give-away to your connection to arfo. I wasn't too surprised when he told me you seered him night 1. Just don't blame me for going vigilante - it's just what I do. I wasn't about to ruin your game just because there was a minuscule chance that gun was the seer.

I don't think the current playerbase has enough actors.

anyway, let's get the next game going asap.

[Viccica]

Kay can we move to the next game now? :3

[iggymatrixcounter]

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn

lol iggy seered me cause I fought with gun about movies lol.

If i remember correctly, iggy, when you sent a PM asking me to go on AIM, that was after you had seered me...what exactly were you planning on saying to me?

I was going to ask you about your wolf suspects and who you thought was human and use that as reference material to see if you would have outted your wolf friends. Everyone has a certain way about throwing names around when they are a wolf and I wanted to see if you would have tried to save them or kill them.

But since you were MIA, I got nothing lol.

@afro: I loved how tass played XD. This really explains why we both argue every game during and after wards.

@fiction: Oh please you know you liked being manipulated to save your own life XDDD.

[A2P]

also I wanted to say sorry if I came off as a dick fiction. I was trying to hide my wolf status -_-

[Litodude]

Lol. Guys, I just want to add in now that's end of game that I'm really not mad or pissed off at anyone even if it sounds like I am or that I explain that I am. Part of the game ya kno? That statement also holds true for AIM conversations as well so don't take anything personally ya freaks.

In anycase, gg. **** you afro/fic for getting behind me - -. I knew it was a bad idea to share who I wanted to wolf with someone else pre-game, but I wasn't even paying full attention to my actions. Cool intuition and shiet.

[edubardus]

the apathetic human route never works for wolves because humans have no reason to be apathetic about anything but getting lynched (unless they hold some sort of stake in the game). Wolves -always- have a stake in the game. Apathy shows that.