TWG VIII Postgame

[GuidoHunter]

[20:55] Jay: I don't think what I did was wrong
[20:55] Jay: want me to lie?

Get political. What everyone wants to see is an admission of fault, an apology, and a statement that it won't happen again. That leaves you with credibility. Face it, nobody's on your side, so just stop fighting.

EDIT AFTER BLAH: Yeah, like that.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[evilbutterfly]

From now on: PMs should be one word only. Any description of roles or explaining how that role relates to the story should be done IN THE ORIGINAL POST OF THE GAME. That way everybody knows what there is that they'll be dealing with, and there will be no fake PMing business. It's an easy solution, really.

[lightdarkness]

Originally Posted by evilbutterfly

From now on: PMs should be one word only. Any description of roles or explaining how that role relates to the story should be done IN THE ORIGINAL POST OF THE GAME. That way everybody knows what there is that they'll be dealing with, and there will be no fake PMing business. It's an easy solution, really.

THat was suggested like 3 games ago by someone, I don't know why it wasn't institutded.

Look everyone, i'm sorry that I broke the rules, and i'm sorry I let down my fellow wolves. At the time I didn't think that it was cheating, and even after the game ended I didn't think so. Squeek has just gave his interpretation of one of the rules on AIM, and I can see why he is doing this game suspension thing.

I promiss not to do anything of this nature again. I don't think a game suspension should be placed upon me, as being kicked out of TWG 8 has done enough emotional damage that even a 2 or 1 game suspension could do.

I'm really sorry, and you can trust that I won't do anything of the sort ever again.

P.S. I'm telling the truth.

[Squeek]

Blah suggested that to me on AIM and I concur.

Here's what it should look like:

HUMAN / WOLF (+ teammates) / MASON (+ teammates) / GUARDIAN / SEER / PSYCHIC / ETC

In the pre-game:

If your PM looks like _____, then you do _________.

HUMAN : roflcopter.

WOLF : roflcopter.

ETC : lmaoplane.

~Squeek

PS - Seeing as Chardish is trying to get his new idea implemented and it is totally different from TWG, I do not think LD needs to be taken out of that. We need "beta testers" for it.

Personally, I'd rather LD help me out behind the scenes on Infiltration. As an assistant of sorts. Especially since he wants to write a PHP script to help run it.

[blahblah18]

i spoke to chardish on it, and i'l let that be his decision, but if we allow LD for it, we would have to allow Tass too, to be fair

[lightdarkness]

Originally Posted by chardish

Personally, I'd rather LD help me out behind the scenes on Infiltration. As an assistant of sorts. Especially since he wants to write a PHP script to help run it.

I'd be willing to do that, but I don't want to have to wait til TWG XI to play again.

[evilbutterfly]

Originally Posted by MrESqueek

We need "beta testers" for it.

How about, if there's an empty slot after it all fills up he can take it. If not, oh well. He just has to promise to be the last to sign up, and only if nobody else is joining.

[lightdarkness]

For everyone that voted 2 games: I'll accept a one game ban, but I really don't think 2 is fair.

I was kicked out of TWG on day 2, and it went to what, day 5 or something? That was a lot of that game I missed, and essentially lost for my side. If I weren't kicked out, the wolves might have had a better chance.

Thats why if you feel I deserve any ban, you should only vote 1. 2 is overpunishing.

[Lupin_the_3rd]

For everyone that voted 2 games: I'll accept a one game ban, but I really don't think 2 is fair

It doesn't appear to me like you have much choice in the matter. By arguing more, you are making people even more pissed (including me). Just drop it. Wow, you found a way to exploit a loophole...since when has this been the purpose of the game? If you want to maintain any credibility, just let it go. Not only did you try to trick a new player into believing this (who wouldn't know any better), but by cheating, you are directly attacking the spirit of TWG itself. If you can't appreciate the game beyond the prospect of winning, then maybe it'd be for the best that you took a break from the game.

I lost jTWG when I was within one human lynch of winning (this happened twice). However, whereas you cannot accept defeat, I praised the efforts of those who played the game, and had a hell of a time doing it. Now imagine if I had sent Afrobean my "pm" and had won the game because of it. The end result of the game would be people being pissed off at me, me defending myself for my "clever" little plan, and people not wanting to play with me ever again.

Edit: Tasselfoot also received a 2 game ban, but your offense was worse than his, as there was SO much stress on this being an anti-cheating game. Is you getting off with a 1 game suspension fair to Tasselfoot? I think not.

[Tasselfoot]

aight... fear not gentle plebes, Tass is here to make his amazing comments.

K, all ego is now aside.

Regarding TWG8:

before the thread was even unlocked, LD IMs me asking where Orli was (i wasn't home at the time), and when i get back, he wants to talk to her about "personal" stuff. I thought he was going to ask out a girl or something, wanted her advice. Or, the other obvious... they are both either wolves/masons. So, pegged LD before Orli was even home. She gets home, i read over her shoulder as she open her PM (with her concent), and see the 4 wolves. I let LD talk to me about his strategy etc, and find out he knows 3 of the 4 masons, and has the 4th pegged between 2 people (he was right on the 3, and kilga was one of the 2). Orli tells me they are killing eb, so i ask LD the obvious question... why? and, he tells me about Blah's statement.

I would have killed blah anyway, alas... silly wolves falling for his ploy. eb being saved was the sole turning point of the game. Also, if they decide to not kill blah, why not take out a mason. he had the 4th down to between cypher/kilga... so, if either of them gets killed, it can easily be blamed on their intelligence, not on being masons... as apposed to jursey or flypie, who aren't as highly regarded.

From there, the game becomes obvious. Especially since i talk with eb and he tells me who the guardian/psychic etc are, confirms LDs mason theory, and all that jazz. And, it becomes a simple process of elimination game for the humans. My kind of human victory... big alliance, and voting off all that aren't in it based off of suspiciousness.

To the wolves: ALL FOUR OF YOU HAD VOTES BY DAY 2... all 4 of you played like a steaming pile of dung. I wanted to slap all of you upside the head for being as obvious as you were, especially LD. To those who were so convinced of LDs humanity... WTF are you people smoking??

To MAC, Flypie, and Jursey: You three seriously need to re-read the past TWGs. Your playing was extremely bad early in the game. Alain was so clearly human it wasn't even funny, but you all were too dense to notice this. Moreso the mason ladies than MAC. MACs woes extended through the game... you need to hit another jTWG or two before being allowed back in the TWG. Flypie never had a chance to play well, with her being killed on night 3... and, Jursey became UNBELIEVABLY quiet after LD was kicked out of the game. No one else seemed to pick up on that.

To Alain: You tried to be me on day 1, and it wound up being very very helpful to the humans in the end... but, you picked a very bad game to try to do it in, with SO many n00bs playing and not understanding the brilliance of the logic. PS - ALL FOUR WOLVES VOTED ALAIN ON DAY 1!!!!!!!

To Blah: I demand by shepards crook back. Excellent ploy to save yourself from being wolfed.

To eb: you got lucky, then turned it to your advantage... from other reports, you could have been a more effective leader... but, i doubt you are used to that position. also, you had many of your alliance members voting differently than you. that is poor... an alliance is not an alliance unless its members work together.


Onto other matters...

Regarding LDs Banning:

I didn't feel what i did was full fledged cheating... bending the rules to their fullest extent, of course. That was the first time. The 2nd time, I had no excuses. And, as such, I completely understand the feelings of the fellow players and their decisions. Its why i'm serving my banning without bitching or complaining. I hope that you see how you bent the rules as well, and can understand why they wish to punish you as well. And, I was given 2 games... I see no reason why you shouldn't be given the same. PS - re-read the TWG5 postgame. I'm fairly sure I made myself crystal clear on what happened. Chardish contacted me with his scheme, i agreed. He contacted you, you went along with it. He contacted Kefit, I contacted Guido... they didn't go along with it. You actively participated in the extreme bending of the rules (read: CHEATING).

To Jursey: you seem to have no issues with LD wanting to cheat... perhaps you should be limited to playing in jTWG2 and jTWG3, then allowed back in the regular TWGs after that. That is of course, if your play in the jTWGs merits your participation in the real TWGs. From everything i saw in TWG8, I would be quite upset if you were allowed to play in TWG9. Your logic was awful, regardless of your decisions regarding LD.

To Flypie:
flypie743: LD just pulled a tass
flypie743: he found something not in the rules
flypie743: and used it
flypie743: but it was still low and cheating
flypie743: bye eb
xtrialand errorx: yeah
xtrialand errorx: i know

mastr414: PLEASE TELL SQUEEK
mastr414: you were as hard against tass as anyone
mastr414: don't make a double standard :-\
flypie743: that's because I dislike tass
flypie743: strongly


so... can you explain those statements to Blah/Jurs? you clearly say to Jurs that it was cheating, but refuse to squeel on LD to squeek because you are friends with him... as quite obviously not with me.

Is Jurs/Flypie's actions worth punishment? I'll leave those decisions up to others... as I am rather biased.


Regarding TWG9/Infiltration: Chardish has already said that he wants me to play in Infiltration1... if i do so, i'll most certainly serve the 2nd game of my banning directly following. With that, i would rather play a few more TWGs before switching over to Infiltration. TWG is just getting to the point where excellent logic is being used by the majority of the players, new game ideas are being implimented, and balance is being achieved. At least give TWG a few more chances before drastically changing the nature of our games.

Also, if we go ahead with TWG9, will i be allowed to run for host? manhunt will be the ultimate logical game... i'm sure alain and blah will greatly enjoy it. nforcer as well... the rest of you will, of course, but make sure to put your thinking cap on extra tight... it'll be a fun game of 1 person trying to outsmart 13 others.

I feel like I could say alot more, and am most likely forgetting to say a few things... Perhaps I will remember to say them later. But, i have said ALOT already... I'll wait for comments from y'all.

Thoughts on Tass hosting TWG IX: I'm fine with it, but he'd have to finish serving his sentence by not playing TWG X.

Thoughts on Infiltration vs. TWG for the next game: Infiltration will be another game, not TWG IX. TWG IX will take place when Infiltration is over. Since Infiltration is WAY more work to run compared to TWG, I don't plan on holding these very often. Maybe every 3 or 4 games or so.

[blahblah18]

esp if we do tass's manhunt thing.. thats so quick and innocuous, then it can be run concurrently with infiltration
and it makes LD's sentence like 1.5 games isntead of 2... but it still hurts since i know he relly wanted to play this and specifically be the lone wolf

[Tasselfoot]

1/14 chance Blah... i mean, when i do run it, the wolf won't be random... but, he can still assume a 1/14 chance, if he is playing.

and, with that... if my hosting game doesn't count towards my sentence... i'll just wait. it will most likely delay my hosting of a twg til #15 or so, since i'm going to want to play a few now that i've been absent from 1 (so far).

[Kefit]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

I would have killed blah anyway, alas... silly wolves falling for his ploy. eb being saved was the sole turning point of the game.

Killing blah was exactly what I would have done that night. My fellow wolves ended up making the desicion without me while I was at work =/

[GuidoHunter]

Wouldn't Manhunt be really easy to do and get out of the way? I'm sure this has been brought up before, but why not slip Manhunt in between TWG VIII and Infiltration? That should give chardish plenty of time to work out all the story and discuss all the issues with everyone, to be on the safe side.

As for Tass's sentence, I don't like the idea of letting him sort of pick and choose when he gets to serve, but I'd be all for the idea of letting him host Manhunt, play Infiltration, and then sit out his next game. The idea is that he's banned for two games, serves his sentence, then comes back, but if even prisoners can get out for good behavior, I think we can at least grant him this favor, especially since he'll be doing something for the game. We need someone as aggressive and intelligent as Tassel for Infiltration, of that I have no doubt, but he'll also host a game for another bunch. This goes if they are run concurrently, too.

Now, if Infiltration will be before Manhunt, I move that he play Infiltration, sit one out, then host Manhunt.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[blahblah18]

good point guido.. tas if you're worried about the whole time thing.. just do manhunt like post haste, and infiltration will start whenever its done.. it'l give chardish the extra 1 or 2 days he might need

[alainbryden]

All I wish to say is that I enjoyed this game the most of all. Great comments made by Blah, EB, and Tass. Pretty much everything I wanted to say. I don't think there's a need to explain myself anymore.

[flypie743]

To MAC, Flypie, and Jursey: You three seriously need to re-read the past TWGs. Your playing was extremely bad early in the game. Alain was so clearly human it wasn't even funny, but you all were too dense to notice this. Moreso the mason ladies than MAC. MACs woes extended through the game... you need to hit another jTWG or two before being allowed back in the TWG. Flypie never had a chance to play well, with her being killed on night 3... and, Jursey became UNBELIEVABLY quiet after LD was kicked out of the game. No one else seemed to pick up on that.

I never voted for alain this game. Why are you saying that I am dense when at least 6 other people voted for him (like Kilga, LD, etc.) when I didn't even vote for him? I actually did have a strong alliance going with blah and eb, so I think I did play pretty well.

To Flypie:
flypie743: LD just pulled a tass
flypie743: he found something not in the rules
flypie743: and used it
flypie743: but it was still low and cheating
flypie743: bye eb
xtrialand errorx: yeah
xtrialand errorx: i know

mastr414: PLEASE TELL SQUEEK
mastr414: you were as hard against tass as anyone
mastr414: don't make a double standard :-\
flypie743: that's because I dislike tass
flypie743: strongly


so... can you explain those statements to Blah/Jurs? you clearly say to Jurs that it was cheating, but refuse to squeel on LD to squeek because you are friends with him... as quite obviously not with me.

If LD had showed me the PM himself I would have gone to Squeek, however he showed Jurs and it was Jurs' responsibility to go to Squeek if needed. Also, I do believe that I voted LD to have the same punishment that you did-a ban.

[JurseyRider734]

Well by the time LD showed me the PM, I was convinced he was a human, so then I showed it to flypie (someone I could trust) and then everyone flipped out and blah decided to tell on him.

Tass: The reason I stopped talking after LD was kicked off was because I had a 103 degree fever, was throwing up everyday, and could hardly get out of bed.

I came back to see TWG locked and unsticked and I was like "what..."

I'm still not feeling well so I won't be on the computer that often, but i'm trying. I think I learned a lot from this game. And I was really excited that I was Neo.