Old 10-21-2018, 08:25 PM   #1
qrrbrbirbel
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Default Terminal Categorization

As the super chic title suggests, I'm starting the process of categorizing the songs of ffr by chart type! This has been tickled upon through various years, but this year is the time all of those empty promises come to fruition!

I am going to post 5 different threads that detail each category with a batch of 20 songs. More songs will be added per user recommendation and me confirming said files. Song without recommendation will then be added following the recommendation queue being empty.


What this means:
You'll be able to search this main thread for songs that tailor to your current skill progress.

Newer users can use this thread in lieu of asking senior members for song recommendations.

Warm-up regimens become that much easier to build.



My starting goals:

Difficulties 30-70 put into 5 categories

Difficulties 30-40 put into 10 subcategories.



Currently, I'd like the communities help in determining what the 5 main categories should be. Once this is agreed upon, I am going to move into solo work and comb through the songs to make sure every category fits the bill.



Please have patience as I am estimating this will take at least a year to meet my current goals VS 2 years for my total goals.
If done right this should prove to be an inexhaustible resource for years to come, so let's BE ALL WE CAN BE
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Wtf do you mean by each category, like do you mean skillset, like owo club is jack speed and exciting hyper high-speed star is jumpstream woaw, idk what u mean pls elaborate more ok

Also why not rate higher Diff songs like surely u could be able to say a file like make the fire burn is streams but lol idk

Edit: lolz I'm really interested to see how you'd make 10 categories out of 30-40 songs like lmao "ok so this one has occasional 140 oht in between the 8ths!!! But this one has occasion 90 bpm jacks woh!!!" like xd but good luck

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Old 10-22-2018, 02:51 AM   #3
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

This would be better done as 1 thread with 5 posts each dedicated to your categories. If this actually got done, and was useful, and we wanted to make it more easily available as a resource for people, we'd want to merge them into one thread anyway (which would be a hideous mess if done with the merge function)

So rather than make somebody (you or somebody else) down the road collate the content of the 5 threads into one, you should cut out the middleman and make 1 thread now instead.

Are you going to sort them by Stream, Voltage, Air, Chaos and Freeze?

Last edited by devonin; 10-22-2018 at 02:57 AM..
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Megathread heard lol.

The 5 main categories will be like the traditional stream, voltage, etc, but the terminology will be a bit different (Ala there are no real freeze arrows in FFR).

To answer your question dingles, a song will have to have a prevalent enough theme for it to fall into a category. The situation you mentioned where a higher level song that has every theme mashed together probably won't even warrant categorizing it. Besides, once you reach a certain level of skill all you want to play are dump files anyway amirite lolol.


Here are some ideas I have for the categories thus far :

Technique: Files that focus on awkward hand positions and transitions
And an example of a subcategory for technique....
Stagger: Songs that have multiple timing bursts (ex. Choprite, hardcore of the North, etc)
Stamina: Files that have high density notes VS low density breaks
And an example of a subcategory for stamina.....
Consistency: Songs that have large brackets of repeating patterns (trills, running men, stairs)
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Mason - I play brutal and just hit random buttons
Goldstinger - Eat suck thankings lol
Squid Bits - booty isnt my only poor decision
Goldsting - no i'm not stepping rain / bro i'm not that trash
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

How much subjectivity are you willing to have in this ?
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

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Originally Posted by devonin View Post
Are you going to sort them by Stream, Voltage, Air, Chaos and Freeze?
ded

I think this needs to be either a) automted or b) crowdsourced tho because one person doing it all is just screaming for bias
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Like I said in the op, I'd like for all us regulars to come to a consensus on what the categories should be, so that's as far as the subjectivity goes I think.


And of course I'll be down to have people help me with this rushy, I'm just planning on it being mostly solo work because anyone I've talked to about this previously has either laughed or wished me good luck or both lol
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Rottel-da-Station (1-0-0-0) Final Fantasy Last Battle Festival (11-0-0-0)



Mason - I play brutal and just hit random buttons
Goldstinger - Eat suck thankings lol
Squid Bits - booty isnt my only poor decision
Goldsting - no i'm not stepping rain / bro i'm not that trash
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Then I guess I'll let you know if/when I get acceptable results for difficulty automation since that has some kind of categorization no matter the approach.

You might want to start by suggesting some categories with measurable factors first because I'm fairly certain that this is the biggest part of the problem and that you're likely gonna have to provide that in order to gather people for help.

EDIT: Actually, my approach would probably not be suitable for your needs because it's not really based on patterns but ask MinaciousGrace; his difficulty calculator in Etterna seems to be exactly what you want if I understood your problem correctly.

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Old 10-22-2018, 12:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Sweet, thanks wo/man! I'll be sure to keep a copy of the tentative categories in the op for ease of use so people don't have to search through posts to find the latest discussion
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Flounder (4-0-0-0) Full Mast (1-0-0-0)
Rottel-da-Station (1-0-0-0) Final Fantasy Last Battle Festival (11-0-0-0)



Mason - I play brutal and just hit random buttons
Goldstinger - Eat suck thankings lol
Squid Bits - booty isnt my only poor decision
Goldsting - no i'm not stepping rain / bro i'm not that trash
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

If this isn't meant to cover every song in the game, doing specific patterns/skills would be more useful than the stagger/technique thing (altho stamina may very well be a good choice)

Vague ideas
Jacks: Fei Longer, Club, AIM Anthem, Turbo
Jumpstream: Seven, System Doctor, Makiba, Thinking of You
Bursts: Tori No Uta (Noise Rave Mix), Bus Rides For People, Schmollbluk
Rolls: X-Tinction, Master Maid, DeVouR, Unconnected (hurr)
Whatever kinda technical bullshit you call Feldschlacht: Feldschlacht, Radical Rat
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayword45 View Post
If this isn't meant to cover every song in the game, doing specific patterns/skills would be more useful than the stagger/technique thing (altho stamina may very well be a good choice)

Vague ideas
Jacks: Fei Longer, Club, AIM Anthem, Turbo
Jumpstream: Seven, System Doctor, Makiba, Thinking of You
Bursts: Tori No Uta (Noise Rave Mix), Bus Rides For People, Schmollbluk
Rolls: X-Tinction, Master Maid, DeVouR, Unconnected (hurr)
Whatever kinda technical bullshit you call Feldschlacht: Feldschlacht, Radical Rat
Why though. I don't see how any consensus would be possible if people just throw categories without any measurable factors.

System Doctor in a Jumpstream category, where does that come from ?
Unconnected in a Rolls category and not Burst ?
What is a burst by definition to keep your others categories somewhat mutually exclusive ?


@OP: Just use Mina's difficulty system tbh, save yourself some big trouble.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

I think if we were to have a pentagon, I'd pick jacks (includes trills), stream, jumps (includes hands/quads), bursts (dense patterning of any kind), stamina.

And we can employ the difficulty system to scale the pentagon by rating each song out of 10 (use 10 for the most prominent patterning in the song, then scale down the others based on their impact), then taking that rating * difficulty/120

a couple examples:



feel like this gives enough of a general idea of what to expect in the file.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Sweet graphs Rushy !

I'll save the million questions for later if this happens to get some more work done but just out of curiosity why would you put trills and jacks together ?
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

I like rushy's graph but I'd like more categories than 5 ie; offbeats (not red yellow or blue)
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Yaaaasssssss seeing it visually helps a lot with my subpar explanations thank you rushy! I didn't even think to break the density of pattern into numerics.

I'll update op after work
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Mason - I play brutal and just hit random buttons
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Goldsting - no i'm not stepping rain / bro i'm not that trash
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Quote:
Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx View Post
Sweet graphs Rushy !

I'll save the million questions for later if this happens to get some more work done but just out of curiosity why would you put trills and jacks together ?
Short answer: brevity

Long answer: IMO, trills and jacks require a lot of the same skillset, and trills are in essence just staggered jacks. Makes sense to group them together if one is trying to just get a first-glance impression. The actual category itself, if I were to implement it, probably wouldn't be called "jacks", but something else to convey that kind of patterning prevalent in jacks, trills, and anchor patterns. Sure we could have a decagon or something with every possible pattern imaginable, but that's info overload.

I think it's best to define the two or three most prominent features of a file to give a sufficient explanation of what will be going on in it.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

What rushy said about the brevity.

A nice secondary goal would be to have a graph like that for every song. To start I just want to do the songs that have a heavy influence in 1 or 2 categories (just something to point newer members or vets coming out of retirement in the right direction).

Trouble with jacks? Play these songs.

Lost your stamina? Play these.

Etc
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Rottel-da-Station (1-0-0-0) Final Fantasy Last Battle Festival (11-0-0-0)



Mason - I play brutal and just hit random buttons
Goldstinger - Eat suck thankings lol
Squid Bits - booty isnt my only poor decision
Goldsting - no i'm not stepping rain / bro i'm not that trash
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

I'm kind of hyped to see more of those graphs they're really good
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

the graphs are easy if we have the data points
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Terminal Categorization

Quote:
Originally Posted by rushyrulz View Post
Short answer: brevity

Long answer: IMO, trills and jacks require a lot of the same skillset, and trills are in essence just staggered jacks. Makes sense to group them together if one is trying to just get a first-glance impression. The actual category itself, if I were to implement it, probably wouldn't be called "jacks", but something else to convey that kind of patterning prevalent in jacks, trills, and anchor patterns. Sure we could have a decagon or something with every possible pattern imaginable, but that's info overload.

I think it's best to define the two or three most prominent features of a file to give a sufficient explanation of what will be going on in it.
Just be aware that one-hand trills and jacks are much more different than 2 hands trills and jacks, in terms of hand/finger movement.
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