Old 04-6-2012, 02:22 AM   #121
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Old 04-6-2012, 10:09 AM   #122
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Default Re: So I finally came clean to my parents.

As sad as it is, *if* one of your parents were gay flipsta, I totally get their reaction. Not only are you going against their ideals, but having you around would be a constant stress on their marriage. You'd be a symbol that their marriage is a lie, even if they didn't feel it was. I could especially see this if the other parent knows the other one is gay.
But I wouldn't put it beyond them to just think it's wrong and that's that of course. I just don't get that thinking. (I mean, I understand it, but I couldn't see me doing it sort of thing.)
I dunno how you'd know, but it's obvoius to me for my parents. Like my mom will say tell me when some guy's attractive sometimes, and my dad *shudder* oggles women sometimes.
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Old 04-6-2012, 11:33 AM   #123
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I honestly don't understand the reasoning "religious" people have against homosexuality (I'm mainly thinking of Christianity). According to The Bible Jesus loved and constantly hung around the marginalized and hated. I'm also pretty sure the New Testament only says one thing about homosexuality, and it talks specifically about male prostitutes. Any argument from the Old Testament can usually be refuted by pointing out that the person quoting it is probably wearing some kind of polyester/cotton blend which is a sin according to the Bible just like eating any kind of shellfish. If your parents were good Christians, they'd love you regardless of whatever "sins" you commit and IMO it may be good to tell them this and get some quotes for them. Honestly I wish religion would just lay down and die already.
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Old 04-6-2012, 11:34 AM   #124
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Default Re: So I finally came clean to my parents.

It's an excuse to tell people what's right and wrong with no reason (in the "gay is bad" context). Thank you Jesus!

People consistently interpret obscure and almost delusional metaphors from the text in order to prove something ridiculous.
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Old 04-6-2012, 11:57 AM   #125
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I honestly don't understand the reasoning "religious" people have against homosexuality (I'm mainly thinking of Christianity).
maybe this will clear things up for you:
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Old 04-6-2012, 12:46 PM   #126
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Yeah, I would bashed religion a bit more but when debating stuff like this I take into account that arguing religion is a lot harder than arguing aspects of their religion or simply telling them that their doing the opposite of that which their religion teaches. I'm totally on your boat too. Religion is poison for society period in my view but that's a topic for an entirely different thread that probably isn't aloud.

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Old 04-6-2012, 01:06 PM   #127
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Old 04-6-2012, 01:07 PM   #128
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Default Re: So I finally came clean to my parents.

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I honestly don't understand the reasoning "religious" people have against homosexuality (I'm mainly thinking of Christianity). According to The Bible Jesus loved and constantly hung around the marginalized and hated. I'm also pretty sure the New Testament only says one thing about homosexuality, and it talks specifically about male prostitutes. Any argument from the Old Testament can usually be refuted by pointing out that the person quoting it is probably wearing some kind of polyester/cotton blend which is a sin according to the Bible just like eating any kind of shellfish. If your parents were good Christians, they'd love you regardless of whatever "sins" you commit and IMO it may be good to tell them this and get some quotes for them. Honestly I wish religion would just lay down and die already.
Let's separate this post and group the sentences that go with each other.

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I'm also pretty sure the New Testament only says one thing about homosexuality, and it talks specifically about male prostitutes. Any argument from the Old Testament can usually be refuted by pointing out that the person quoting it is probably wearing some kind of polyester/cotton blend which is a sin according to the Bible just like eating any kind of shellfish.
This is Biblical ignorance. Of course, judging by the "I wish religion would just lay down and die already" comment, you're probably not interested in a refutation. I'm also not interested in derailing the thread, so we'll just move on...

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According to The Bible Jesus loved and constantly hung around the marginalized and hated. If your parents were good Christians, they'd love you regardless of whatever "sins" you commit
This is good Biblical understanding. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" and all that jazz. Driving people away is probably the worst way to try to get them to come to God.

It is very important to not conflate "love" with "acceptance", though.

It is loving to acknowledge sin and attempt to turn people from it (there are, of course, very good and VERY bad ways to do this; don't get me wrong). If parents believe homosexual behavior is sinful, you can't just expect them to flip a switch and say, "Oh, it's totally okay now that my son is gay." Being a son does not confer moral rectitude on your actions. As such, it is *not* loving to embrace and encourage sinful behavior in those you love. There is a small but significant distinction between:

"Son, we love you, but we can't accept this."
and
"Son, we love you, so we can't accept this."

Ken's dad came pretty close with his initial response. Acknowledgement that he couldn't physically do anything about it, and the assertion that it's still wrong, regardless of what his son might mistakenly believe. An assertion of continued love would have gone a long way, though. Unfortunately, reasonable responses blew away with a light breeze, and the next step was to shun and disown him, doing nobody any favors and probably doing great harm to all involved.

This is more of a generalized post to get people to consider the views and feelings of the parents involved and quell the hate a little bit. Having a child come out to you is a very difficult experience and may give rise to less-than-ideal reactions, but by and large, they ultimately still love you and a cooperative effort will be needed to ensure good relationships.

Don't write them off, Ken. I'm sure it'll be tough, but fight your parents with love.

--Guido
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Old 04-6-2012, 01:11 PM   #129
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Default Re: So I finally came clean to my parents.

Guido, as probably the only other religious guy on the internet, I Got Your Back, Bro.
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Old 04-6-2012, 01:17 PM   #130
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just gonna put this here >.>

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Old 04-6-2012, 01:20 PM   #131
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Default Re: So I finally came clean to my parents.

Guidohunter posting in a religious thread in chit-chat.

Man you -must- be bored.
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Old 04-6-2012, 01:34 PM   #132
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--Guido



Edit: I was born and raised Christian, have been to MANY churches over the course of my life, and taught music to younger students at a few Christian schools even, and i can honestly say i've only met one family ever against homosexuality personally.

That being said, every retard with a bible TV show spewing out garbage giving basically all religion a bad name, is against homosexuality beyond firmly. But hey, they give Christians and other religions bad names in ALL subjects.

At least that's my own personal experience. From what i know, from all the Christians i've met, probably 5% of them are actually like the internet claims haha. Welcome to the internetz

Be homosexual if you want to be homosexual, sexuality doesn't judge where you go after this life. Only retard hillbilly blowhards on television claim that. Oh and those bored westboro baptist hicks.

Take it from someone who was born and raised being exposed to not only upperclass suburban christians but also lowerclass impoverished christians haha
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Old 04-6-2012, 01:40 PM   #133
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There's two black squared bishops in that pic ?_?

Maybe promotion to bishop to avoid stalemate? But with such a massive material advantage, why would you bother pushing pawns in the first place...
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Old 04-6-2012, 01:48 PM   #134
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maybe this will clear things up for you:
Your ignorance is showing.
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Old 04-6-2012, 02:04 PM   #135
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It is loving to acknowledge sin and attempt to turn people from it (there are, of course, very good and VERY bad ways to do this; don't get me wrong). If parents believe homosexual behavior is sinful, you can't just expect them to flip a switch and say, "Oh, it's totally okay now that my son is gay." Being a son does not confer moral rectitude on your actions. As such, it is *not* loving to embrace and encourage sinful behavior in those you love.
My problem with this is that not everyone prescribes to the same philosophy. It's easy to say that a parent loves their child when they're trying to get their beloved child who is addicted to heroin to go into rehab. Why should the child stop doing heroin? Because it will kill you. Why should the child stop being gay? Because you'll go to hell. The parent's conviction is brought about by love in both scenarios, but the consequence for being gay is founded entirely upon the parent's interpretation of the Bible, something the child doesn't necessarily believe in.

Alternatively, the child may have a different philosophy - one that he or she holds just as dearly as the parents' faith. This philosophy states that love is stronger than anything, and that if the child's parents loved him or her, they would love him or her unconditionally, regardless of sexuality, and would accept the child for who he or she is. I'm not asserting that they parents need to immediately be marching on Washington for gay rights; just that they should respect the decisions they made.

Quote:
An assertion of continued love would have gone a long way, though. Unfortunately, reasonable responses blew away with a light breeze, and the next step was to shun and disown him, doing nobody any favors and probably doing great harm to all involved.

This is more of a generalized post to get people to consider the views and feelings of the parents involved and quell the hate a little bit. Having a child come out to you is a very difficult experience and may give rise to less-than-ideal reactions, but by and large, they ultimately still love you and a cooperative effort will be needed to ensure good relationships.

Don't write them off, Ken. I'm sure it'll be tough, but fight your parents with love.

--Guido
I'd agree with almost everything here. I try to put myself in his parents' shoes. It's hard to deal with something like that sprung on you when it runs against something you believe. When I first read his father's response I was hopeful. It seemed like everything would be okay, but he decided to go the disowning route. I think he was wrong to do that.

The only thing I disagree with is that it's Ken's responsibility to "fight his parents with love." Everyone here is an adult, and I believe his parents are in the wrong. If anybody should be fighting to restore the relationship, it's his parents.
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Old 04-6-2012, 02:27 PM   #136
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If I had son who turned out to be gay, I would be disappointe not because I'm homophobic bdut because I am not gay. I would take pride in seeing my son wity women because I would see myself in him, a sort of vicarious enjoyment that I would not feel seeing him with other men. Another concern I would have is that he would be less likely to father children and if he were to have a child I would be concerned about the lack of a mother figure in the childs life.

My mother is a lesbian so I am no stranger to homosexuals because I've been around them my whole life. I do not think homosexuality is a bad thing or that it is unnatural(i believe that everyone is bisexual)
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Old 04-6-2012, 04:23 PM   #137
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If I had son who turned out to be gay, I would be disappointe not because I'm homophobic bdut because I am not gay. I would take pride in seeing my son wity women because I would see myself in him, a sort of vicarious enjoyment that I would not feel seeing him with other men. Another concern I would have is that he would be less likely to father children and if he were to have a child I would be concerned about the lack of a mother figure in the childs life.

My mother is a lesbian so I am no stranger to homosexuals because I've been around them my whole life. I do not think homosexuality is a bad thing or that it is unnatural(i believe that everyone is bisexual)
Why does a 'mother figure' have to have breasts and a vagina?
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Old 04-6-2012, 04:29 PM   #138
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Be homosexual if you want to be homosexual.
Oh my God.
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Old 04-6-2012, 05:01 PM   #139
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Be homosexual if you want to be homosexual
I was wondering if I was going to quote you on this but then I saw rushy's quote. I had a girlfriend for 2/3 of a year, and this is after I already thought I was gay. In hindsight I just really couldn't face the fact I was gay and this girl was coming on to me pretty hard. The relationship seemed shallow, never really felt a connection, and she looked like an effeminate gay guy (everybody I know thought she was an effeminate guy at first). We have A LOT in common but in the end I'm just gay and can't do shit about it no matter how hard I try. It's far easier to make this connection with guys for me. There's probably a girl out there somewhere I could be with, but that goes along the lines of JiZ53's "everybody is at least slightly bisexual" statement.

Also on everything else you said, like I said before. It's one thing if OTHER people are homosexuals, but it's a completely different one when it's their kids.


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This is Biblical ignorance. Of course, judging by the "I wish religion would just lay down and die already" comment, you're probably not interested in a refutation. I'm also not interested in derailing the thread, so we'll just move on...
I'm actually quite interested on any passages that contradict what I said. If you say they're out there, I'll believe it. I've gotten this information from fairly bias sources and shallow Google searches. Also I don't really have a beef with people being religious because I think it's a human want to understand what existence is etc etc. Personally though I feel like all religions are false and it just really pisses me of that people think I'm "sinning" or doing wrong based off something that's even admitted to be baseless by the religion itself (faith). Anyway I'm just saying this to clarify my feelings towards religion and religious people. I don't want to derail this thread either but I wouldn't mind a response so I understand where you're coming from, from a religious point of view.

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Old 04-6-2012, 05:05 PM   #140
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Why does a 'mother figure' have to have breasts and a vagina?
My understanding of the biology of gender roles is by no means an educated understanding, but I do know that a mother and her child bond on a very deep level. This bond is cemented by breastfeeding and a number of hormonal interactions that the mother experiences. While I am sure that a male could satisfy the childs needs, he would not be able to provide all that a women can. A female mother figure is also important because it gives the child an opportunity to interact with a female on a daily basis, this is especially important if the child is a girl. The mother becomes the archetypal female to her children. If there is no female mother figure, the child will usually find a female figure to look up to.
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