Old 03-21-2012, 09:57 PM   #1
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Default Almost There (12 or 13)

Besides Revolutionary Etude, this was the only other file to be rated a 92/100 in the old out-of-100 system. Considering Revo is now a 13, we should visit this file's rating as well.

The principal reason for moving it up is of course the 150 bpm 32nd stream. While 300 bpm is "slow" for streams as far as top players are concerned, you have to take pattern into account. The Almost There streams are so difficult because they are extremely trilly, and 300 bpm trills = 150 bpm hidden anchor jacks (2 bpm faster than Revolutionary Etude!)
The rest of the file is certainly easier than the stream section, but it's still not trivial, especially considering nerves when you manage to come out of the stream with a solid score. Between minijacks, fast polyrhthms, dense JS sections with 32nds layered in, and awkward jump transitions there are plenty of places trip you up in the latter 2/3 of the file as well.
I should mention the scoreboard as well, specifically that there are just four scores out of the top 200 on this file with zero boos. That speaks volumes on how difficult the patterns in the stream are to hit properly.

Trying to spur further discussion on the 12/13 border, and after moving Revolutionary Etude up this is the next song to visit.
So, is Almost There a 13?
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

Not sure if 13's are defined yet on FFR but I will go on ahead and post my thoughts on it since no one else did. This file is a tough one to consider because there is only one section in this file that would be considered a "13" in my opinion, the 150BPM 32nds with the trills in them. The rest of the file overall varies between a MID FMO to a HIGH FMO however it is easy to mess up some of those sections like those awkward jump transitions, those 24th polyrhythm bursts, and some of those dense jumpstream/mini-jack patterns.

Executing a file like this as a whole is ridiculously difficult and requires some luck and speed nailing that long 32nd section and not messing up the other sections of the file. A file like this should really be considered a low "13" in my book. I think that stuff like RATO are at a much higher level then a 13 because it requires a lot more pattern flexibility and it has a lot of various places where you might have to sacrifice some boos/goods just to combo a few sections. I should also mention that it could easily cause a lot of random splitting and rage LOL. DP, on the other hand, i think should be fine as a "high 13" instead of just a "13". I am sure I am missing a few more files.

In conclusion, I'd say a low 13 for Almost There.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

150 bpm 32nd stream alone=13

150 bpm 32nd stream with shit before and after=13
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

If AT's gonna be baseline 13, Husigi should get an auto-bump......maybe even AQD

I'll agree that 301bpm minijack stream is eons more difficult than 225bpm broken jumpstream a la Lolo or incredibly simplistic and pattern friendly 260bpm stream a la Reality or ERv2. Anything with 300+ bpm stream for an extended period of time is more FSO worthy imo.

Also, consider the current difficulty rating distribution of streamier files and the bpm gap between those files. If Purple, at 230bpm, is a VC, and Reality, at 259bpm, is a high FMO/low FGO, then AT, at 301bpm with MUCH more dickish patterns, should logically belong in a difficulty category higher than FGO.

+1 to lowest 13
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

It's an interesting thing to note that the 32nd section has a few 2 frame minijacks.

The 32nd section is also a "fake stream". You have some some short-lived roll type patterns that leading into large sections of minijacks and jacks. There are indeed a few one-handed jacking transitions that are very hard to nail without getting boos. However, viewing these parts as minijacks offset on both sides makes it a lot better to handle.

And that 32nd triplet anchor part near the end. That's really easy to trip up on and I remember it screwing over a blackflag run into 3g haha.

Anyways, I say keep this as a 12. It's much better to play through if you see it as a series of one handed minijacks on both sides and play it like that rather than a "32nd trilly stream". What makes that part a pain to score on there is that some of the 32nd transitions can make you hit jumps in 2-frame intervals which really sucks for AAAing.

At this point though, I strongly consider using a system of 1-15. Maybe even 1-16.

If you want a really subjective/biased view, Almost There was a lot easier for me to AAA than A Quick Death and Eclipse. WAY easier. But I think the majority of the problem is that it isn't being hit as minijacks/jacks, but more as a stream-type pattern which screws people over.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

Knew this thread is going to be made.

AT is basically a file that's about all out speed. FCing it without mashing is really difficult, more difficult than Eclipse Solar, despite being 30 BPM more.

The patterns aren't forgiving either, with 150 BPM hidden minijacks and such.
What about everywhere else? Despite being 11 material, it does nothing but bring nerves and **** you up. I rememver tripping hard on them, I FCed the stream thrice but derped somewhere.

Only reason why I say it's 12 is because there is little room between it's too fast and I can destroy this territory. Then again, not many of FFR players can do fast stream.

All in all though, highest 12 or lowest 13.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:30 AM   #7
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

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Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI View Post
It's an interesting thing to note that the 32nd section has a few 2 frame minijacks.

The 32nd section is also a "fake stream". You have some some short-lived roll type patterns that leading into large sections of minijacks and jacks. There are indeed a few one-handed jacking transitions that are very hard to nail without getting boos. However, viewing these parts as minijacks offset on both sides makes it a lot better to handle.

And that 32nd triplet anchor part near the end. That's really easy to trip up on and I remember it screwing over a blackflag run into 3g haha.

Anyways, I say keep this as a 12. It's much better to play through if you see it as a series of one handed minijacks on both sides and play it like that rather than a "32nd trilly stream". What makes that part a pain to score on there is that some of the 32nd transitions can make you hit jumps in 2-frame intervals which really sucks for AAAing.

At this point though, I strongly consider using a system of 1-15. Maybe even 1-16.

If you want a really subjective/biased view, Almost There was a lot easier for me to AAA than A Quick Death and Eclipse. WAY easier. But I think the majority of the problem is that it isn't being hit as minijacks/jacks, but more as a stream-type pattern which screws people over.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

Well with how Hi19 has phrased his argument I'm inclined to agree that it has to be moved up because of Revo.

Now this being said, 13 shouldn't be the LOL STUPID TROLL charts. Since Vrofl I think was put to 14 (because it is a TROLLLOLOLOLO chart) we should weave a few more charts into the 13 spectrum to get a feeling of what is really the hardest batch of reasonable and doable charts in FFR.

Tldr - Let's make Almost there a 13 and begin to look at AQD and Eclipse.

I also agree with OWA that Husugi has to be moved as well (though probably should have been a 13 in the first place to be fair.)
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

Baseline 13. It just feels in a different category than high 12s.... yet at the same time it feels easier than all the 13s. I think it would make a perfect cutoff file.

And though this isn't the thread for it, bump Husugi as well.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:42 AM   #10
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

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And though this isn't the thread for it, bump Husugi as well.
I made threads for every other borderline 13 as well ;)
They just haven't been approved yet for whatever reason.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:46 AM   #11
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

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I made threads for every other borderline 13 as well ;)
They just haven't been approved yet for whatever reason.
Haha fair enough.

Also, I am currently kicking myself for not saying "Keep it at a 12. It is Almost There, but not quite a 13."

Silly me.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

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"Keep it at a 12. It is Almost There, but not quite a 13."
lmfaooooo


...that joke is so obvious in hindsight
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:19 AM   #13
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

I have 36.4.33.10 as my best score for almost there.

I say bump it to 13 so I can have one really awesome 13 score
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

yea my best PA is in the 50's i think... doesn't shout FSO to me. other thank the trills which you can jump mash
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

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I made threads for every other borderline 13 as well ;)
They just haven't been approved yet for whatever reason.
You're going to have to wait a bit, since Jae, jx and I need to discuss a bit more on the lvl 13 difficulty (despite having a few new 13s now) - or a new scale for that matter.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:26 AM   #16
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

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Jae, jx and I need to discuss a bit more on the lvl 13 difficulty (despite having a few new 13s now) - or a new scale for that matter.
I understand him being a mod, but what the hell?
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:33 AM   #17
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

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You're going to have to wait a bit, since Jae, jx and I need to discuss a bit more on the lvl 13 difficulty (despite having a few new 13s now) - or a new scale for that matter.
Oh okay.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:37 AM   #18
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

This file is a high 12, no question.

Yes, there's one tough section, but the rest of the file is AAA-fodder. The trills are learnable.

Revo is a good call for 13 IMO. I always envision 13's as the realm where no PA is safe or guaranteed for a good portion of the file density.

Yes, Revo has fodder too, but the last, what, third of the song being absolutely tough is a far cry from a couple seconds of AT being tough.

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Old 03-22-2012, 10:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

Kind of agree with Reincarnate, i always imagined a small chance of hope for me someday in Almost There, but with Revo it'll always be a file i'll never succeed in haha
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Almost There (12 or 13)

I don't know, in the current system it feels right as a high 12. Even basing off FCs it has almost twice as many as any of the current 13s.

Maybe if we bump Vrofl to 15, throw the UNDENIABLE 13's into 14 and bump the harder 12's into 13...
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