[Concluded] 11th Official Tournament - Round 8

[ZanmatoFusion]

I understand the situation of "slaughter." However, I am not sympathetic. I've been in D6 for a few years now. Every year, once we hit this spot here in the tournament (Rounds 3-5) it shows the huge discrepancy of D6. Still, I fight, as others also do. If we want to get out of the spot were in we have to practice and work hard to achieve a higher skill. Entering an official tournament means you will push yourself to the highest and utmost skill you can possibly achieve. If you can't hack it, oh well, there is always next year.

You are an avid CSGO streamer and player. Do you know how many teams get beat out for the LCS every single year? Yet they don't lower the bar so more people "have a chance to get in." You play at the VERY BEST you possibly can and if that is enough great! Otherwise, keep practicing.

I think it's about time this tournament stops catering to EVERY player, and caters to what an "Official" tournament should be. Basically, AJ, exactly what you did with your OSU tournament. There was NO divisions. I was ranked 60 something and went up against Seed 4. Oh well. Shit happens. I wasn't good enough. Same concept here.

Also, in regards to slaughtering, have you looked at the tournament closely?

D2 - 3,825 point differencial between Rank 1 and the cut off of Rank 24.
D3 - 3,295 point differencial between Rank 1 and the cut off of Rank 26.
D4 - 1,450 point differencial between Rank 1 and the cut off of Rank 24.
D5 - 970 point differencial between Rank 1 and the cut off of Rank 32.

D2 - 153 Goods
D3 - 131.8 Goods
D4 - 58 Goods
D5 - 38.8 Goods

That's a HUGE difference! It's potential slaughter to those that were eliminated already. At least in my eyes.

Now, don't get it twisted (lol), I am not the tournament hoster, nor would I ever DREAM to be (It's fucking hell, trust me, I've seen you two for years hosting this and know what it brings upon you both), but I do understand where you are coming from. (Yes I bolded that part so you will see that!

Either way, there is a HUGE discrepancy in every division. Yet the other divisions are getting bumrushed entirely. The same should be done with D6.



EDIT: Yes, I know there is a limited number of stepfiles. HOWEVER, if they get a template down to a science, they could request certainly difficulties, and since we have such an immense amount of ELITE step artists, I'm damn sure they could come up with those specified difficulties way before the tournament starts. Trust me, I know this site has some of the best steppers around.

[DarkZtar]

Originally Posted by ZanmatoFusion

If an 86 is too low for D6, I'm done joining official tournaments. Seriously, lol. There should be no reason for that. If people are AAA'ing or low sdg'ing 86/87s they should be put in D7 without a doubt. Plus, since tournaments are supposed to be challenging, make them work for it in D7. Breezing through 4 or 5 rounds of a tournament isn't right at all.

You do realize there are people in D6 with sdgs on 90s lmao. Skill gap is gonna be big no matter what the tourney admins do, only so much partitioning you can do with the amount of skillspread and participants in the tourney. The mentality that you won't join if you don't have a realistic shot at winning or placing well is poor in general, the goal of the tourney should be to push yourself to improve, not skate by/ place well with minimal effort.

[hi19hi19]

I keep saying this, but many people seem to be vastly overestimating how easy it is to just make a file of a specific style and difficulty.
At least, one that is tournament-viable: good difficulty curve, pattern variation, technically sound, proper length, FFR permission available, etc.

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

The current D3 tournament file is pretty much a low D4 file, and his score is pretty decent.

He's got 29 goods with misses and other stuff....

[krunkykai22]

Originally Posted by DarkZtar

You do realize there are people in D6 with sdgs on 90s lmao. Skill gap is gonna be big no matter what the tourney admins do, only so much partitioning you can do with the amount of skillspread and participants in the tourney. The mentality that you won't join if you don't have a realistic shot at winning or placing well is poor in general, the goal of the tourney should be to push yourself to improve, not skate by/ place well with minimal effort.

I might as well break the 4th wall here. I'm Zanmato.

Anyway, absolutely. I completely understand and am aware that there are people that have SDG's on 90s+. However, if I'm not mistaken, some of them are on a "particular" skill. YoshL as a reference with his 93(?) sdg. It happened to be something that was to his strength.

But, that also brings up an interesting point. There are people in other divisions, that were/are borderline entrants into their own division. Also, there are those that are of the lower end of their "respective division" and they are forced to fight harder and harder.

It's an endless cycle. I understand that. I'm not degrading anyone, nor am I belittling what people say or think. It's just a shitty situation is all. Not much else you can do about it. But, I still truly feel that D6 should start on a much higher difficulty.


EDIT: Hi19: yes I completely understand that as well. Problem is with this site, is that there are not enough harder files in general. I understand the trouble it is to step a certain difficulty. BUT, if there were more harder files in game of any and all genres, I'm sure something would come about. I know it's a bitch to step something that would be deemed a "HARD" file, I can't for the life of me step anything above a 65 IF THAT. So please understand, I do get what you're saying.

[psychoangel691]

It was supposed to be higher, I fucked up and thought the starting files were higher than they were. I did the best I could.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Soundwave-

The current D3 tournament file is pretty much a low D4 file, and his score is pretty decent.

Titan's score puts him nearly 20 goods below the cutoff on the D4 file. He might be D4 "on paper", but his scores would put him in D3 by manual placement. The D3 file is aggressive, but it's nowhere near as hard as the D4 file in any aspect; Zauberkugel is way more demanding, faster, a bit more aggressive overall with layering, and just downright tougher in every aspect.

Originally Posted by ZanmatoFusion

I understand the situation of "slaughter." However, I am not sympathetic. I've been in D6 for a few years now. Every year, once we hit this spot here in the tournament (Rounds 3-5) it shows the huge discrepancy of D6. Still, I fight, as others also do. If we want to get out of the spot were in we have to practice and work hard to achieve a higher skill. Entering an official tournament means you will push yourself to the highest and utmost skill you can possibly achieve. If you can't hack it, oh well, there is always next year.

You are an avid CSGO streamer and player. Do you know how many teams get beat out for the LCS every single year? Yet they don't lower the bar so more people "have a chance to get in." You play at the VERY BEST you possibly can and if that is enough great! Otherwise, keep practicing.

I think it's about time this tournament stops catering to EVERY player, and caters to what an "Official" tournament should be. Basically, AJ, exactly what you did with your OSU tournament. There was NO divisions. I was ranked 60 something and went up against Seed 4. Oh well. Shit happens. I wasn't good enough. Same concept here.

Also, in regards to slaughtering, have you looked at the tournament closely?

D2 - 3,825 point differencial between Rank 1 and the cut off of Rank 24.
D3 - 3,295 point differencial between Rank 1 and the cut off of Rank 26.
D4 - 1,450 point differencial between Rank 1 and the cut off of Rank 24.
D5 - 970 point differencial between Rank 1 and the cut off of Rank 32.

D2 - 153 Goods
D3 - 131.8 Goods
D4 - 58 Goods
D5 - 38.8 Goods

That's a HUGE difference! It's potential slaughter to those that were eliminated already. At least in my eyes.

Now, don't get it twisted (lol), I am not the tournament hoster, nor would I ever DREAM to be (It's fucking hell, trust me, I've seen you two for years hosting this and know what it brings upon you both), but I do understand where you are coming from. (Yes I bolded that part so you will see that!

Either way, there is a HUGE discrepancy in every division. Yet the other divisions are getting bumrushed entirely. The same should be done with D6.

EDIT: Yes, I know there is a limited number of stepfiles. HOWEVER, if they get a template down to a science, they could request certainly difficulties, and since we have such an immense amount of ELITE step artists, I'm damn sure they could come up with those specified difficulties way before the tournament starts. Trust me, I know this site has some of the best steppers around.

There are really a lot of points here that are not worth mentioning because they cover other games that have structures for the reasons that they do. For starters, FFR cannot handle the concept of a divisionless/live tournament being that there have been 11 tournaments utilizing a divisional structure, and FFR has built a foundation on being playable to all skill levels. Ideally, the best measure of skill would be to have a tournament that has performances that are done live, but the engine's platform/instability prevent multiplayer from being a viable option for an overwhelming portion of the community. The official tournament is something that the site gets largely excited for, but many players will not bother entering if they feel like there's absolutely no shot of them even placing. In order to even try to mitigate this, you would need to spend the time creating a huge bracket, potentially making qualifiers, and eliminating the concept of one week rounds, to dedicate x amount of hours just for a single session. osu! and FFR are not one in the same, and they never will be, with regards to the game or regards to the structure.

Don't get me wrong, I am a large advocate of single-division tournaments - it eliminates sandbagging, it makes prize structures easier, and it even makes prizes simpler to handle. However, the large turnouts and the increase in user activity likely wouldn't be as prominent if players only got to experience a single round or a small number of rounds because they were put against really high level players. It's not inviting. There's a reason why MP tournaments got a super low turnout: the game is unstable, and a reasonable number of higher level players signed up.

[krunkykai22]

@Kayla, and you're doing a damn good job with this tournament. I understand the issues that arose. It happens. Still doesn't mean you're a bad tournament hoster. You've done this now how many years? Point in case there.

I am not belittling any of the staff or hoster(s) of this tournament. D6 is a rough division. Always has been. I've complained til I was blue in the face and have gotten in some immense arguments over it. Back then I was childish, I won't lie. I'm a lot more mature now than I was then, lmao.

Things happen. "It is what it is!!"

As I said earlier, good luck to everyone in D6. I know you guys will have a challenging 2nd half of this tournament, so good luck for that!

[krunkykai22]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

There are really a lot of points here that are not worth mentioning because they cover other games that have structures for the reasons that they do. For starters, FFR cannot handle the concept of a divisionless/live tournament being that there have been 11 tournaments utilizing a divisional structure, and FFR has built a foundation on being playable to all skill levels. Ideally, the best measure of skill would be to have a tournament that has performances that are done live, but the engine's platform/instability prevent multiplayer from being a viable option for an overwhelming portion of the community. The official tournament is something that the site gets largely excited for, but many players will not bother entering if they feel like there's absolutely no shot of them even placing. In order to even try to mitigate this, you would need to spend the time creating a huge bracket, potentially making qualifiers, and eliminating the concept of one week rounds, to dedicate x amount of hours just for a single session. osu! and FFR are not one in the same, and they never will be, with regards to the game or regards to the structure.

Don't get me wrong, I am a large advocate of single-division tournaments - it eliminates sandbagging, it makes prize structures easier, and it even makes prizes simpler to handle. However, the large turnouts and the increase in user activity likely wouldn't be as prominent if players only got to experience a single round or a small number of rounds because they were put against really high level players. It's not inviting. There's a reason why MP tournaments got a super low turnout: the game is unstable, and a reasonable number of higher level players signed up.

Indeed, sir. You are 100% correct!

Still doesn't deviate me from my opinion that D6 should be on par with the rest of the tournament. D6 has the smallest cut off line of ALL divisions including D7!! (20 something goods from Etienne to gameboy), and that is the highest division of them all! D6 has never been bumrushed the way other divisions have in every official (*cough* D3 *cough*)

Still, since they are getting their asses handed to them, why not make it a uniformed policy with ALL divisions (minus that of D7 because lulz godly). You understand where I'm going?

D6 is the entrance level to the highest tier of FFR. You have to get through this division to enter the Master Tier/Diamond Tier/Challenger Tier (Yes game references!)

So why not make it worth noting that you have to FIGHT for it since you have to FIGHT SO HARD to get placed in D7?

Just a thought!

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

It was supposed to be higher.

Originally Posted by krunkykai22

post

you're beating a dead horse, but more in the sense that you're saying something that's useless, since that was the actual intent in the first place.

[Soundwave-]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Titan's score puts him nearly 20 goods below the cutoff on the D4 file. He might be D4 "on paper", but his scores would put him in D3 by manual placement. The D3 file is aggressive, but it's nowhere near as hard as the D4 file in any aspect.

Well, as has been said, there's an expectation that players are challenged to step it up in the tournament; I was only speaking "on paper". I was simply impressed that he went up a division and didn't just get smacked by the current song.

[TC_Halogen]

And yet again, you're failing to realize that he's not a legitimate D4 player. Just because the skill rating places you as D4 doesn't mean that you are D4. Same goes with all of the other divisions as well.

I'm going to keep it short: please stop making any sort of implications that Titan needs to be shifted or moved any further. The point of challenging yourself is to put yourself where you belong, not to put yourself into tournament death.

[Soundwave-]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

I'm going to keep it short: please stop making any sort of implications that Titan needs to be shifted or moved any further.

You seem to believe I'm making implications I'm not making.

[Deidara837]

This is literally all I see over and over again

[Red Blaster]

Originally Posted by Deidara837

This is literally all I see over and over again

Pretty much this.

[psychoangel691]

I expect much hate from D4

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

I expect much hate from D4

posting this here as well: all videos -were- recorded at a very clean/smooth 60 FPS, but apparently Vegas likes to shit on everything - apologies about lower frames on stuff but I didn't feel like rendering again :V

p.s. moar Undertale

[Soundwave-]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

moar Undertale

Awww yiss, D3 undertale here we go.

[Walrusizer]

d6 file is gonna be sick, d7 looks fun but i know im getting eliminated because fuck jacks

[Winrar]

Lmfao that D4, I almost would rather play the D5 file.
ps. my boy lurker with the d7 chart.