[Concluded] 11th Official Tournament - Round 8

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Wait so you are complaining that the songs are too hard, but also pointing out that they seem to not be hard enough, at least in the case of D6.

What exactly are you saying?
Because I think D1-5 and D7 are perfect, and yeah D6 should have been harder.



Every round should weed people out!

Hey keep in mind I thought the D6 file was an 80 and most people that looked at it prior to the tournament said 79/80 for it. I still don't even believe it will be AAA or die anyway.

I'm to a point now where I'm about to turn this into OSU! where there's just best of the best and that's that. It's pretty ridiculous that no matter what we do it's this constant complaint fest. How about it's a game, sit back enjoy and stop finding things to complain about. Previous tournaments "it's too easy" this tournament "it's too hard" well I guess you all should work your butts off and improve then huh? I warned everyone it was going to get harder, that I wasn't going to sit here and have it be where people come in first round, AAA first or second try and that's that.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Killionz

Every round should indeed weed people out, but what I'm getting at, is the d2 and d4 files are miles ahead of say... d1/d3/d5.

I don't think d6 should have been harder, but if the goal was to prevent AAA-fests, there's already one forming in D6, so I'm not sure why that principle didn't apply to d6, but it did to the rest.

Oh, so I think the confusion here is that you seem to think people making the files and running the tournament are omniscient gods who can tell exactly how well 60 other people they don't know very well will perform on the file.

This is not the case.

The goal was a nice spread with 1-2 people AAAing with a lot of work, down to the cutoff line where people were really struggling and getting weeded out, as you put it. This isn't really the case in D2 or D6, but it's hard to be perfect. I'm not defending that D6, for example, didn't turn out ideal, but this is definitely the best tournament opening since the site came back online.

If you think you can do better, I can go give you a list of the exact scores that people in the next round of certain division should be getting and you can go feel free to step a file that exactly fits that description. It's... pretty hard to do that. Not that people haven't tried in the past. *cough*

[Deidara837]

Originally Posted by Figlar20k

I shouldn't be AAAing the first 3 rounds.

Whereas in previous tournaments you only made it to later rounds if you AAA'd the whole first half (or more) of the tournament

This setup is fine

(Edit: It may have not looked like it idk internet does that but I am indeed agreeing with you)

[Killionz]

Agreed, 100% actually, but as far as D6...

The skill gap in the bracket is so spread out, there should almost be an 8th division.

The majority of what I see, is some people SLAUGHTERING other people because of the huge skill jump between D6 & D7.

If that's not the case, there should be an A & B division (like TC_Halogen does with his tournaments) to prevent some of those issues.

Like I said, just my two cents! I'm not trying to argue with someone, but I don't agree with 75% of the way all of this has been set up so far.

I also heard that, depending on how well you do/progress overall, you can be bumped to higher divisions DURING the tournament. Can anyone confirm this? Because I would actually be amazed if that was the reality of getting better with 4k.

[Walrusizer]

just remove divisions entirely

[blanky!]

Well I don't know about having the difficulties too high, some of the battles have to be close 'cause that creates more excitement for everyone. Like a later round song could probly have 2-3 people with single digit goods, fightin' it out for first place. Dunno about anything else (and it's worth reiterating that increased difficulties made the first round exciting [but who knows about later rounds??]) but that's based on my experience in the 8th official when D4's final round (Go Beyond) was balls-to-the-wall hard and the winner had a pretty significant margin.

/devilsadvocate

[Deidara837]

Originally Posted by Killionz

Agreed, 100% actually, but as far as D6...

The skill gap in the bracket is so spread out, there should almost be an 8th division.

The majority of what I see, is some people SLAUGHTERING other people because of the huge skill jump between D6 & D7.

If that's not the case, there should be an A & B division (like TC_Halogen does with his tournaments) to prevent some of those issues.

Like I said, just my two cents! I'm not trying to argue with someone, but I don't agree with 75% of the way all of this has been set up so far.

I also heard that, depending on how well you do/progress overall, you can be bumped to higher divisions DURING the tournament. Can anyone confirm this? Because I would actually be amazed if that was the reality of getting better with 4k.

In some user tournaments, D5 has been broken into D5A and D5B before. Don't remember if D6 ever has been.

Also in the 9th OT I was bumped from D1 to D2 in Round 1 but that was more of a misplacing than anything due to me not playing files in my skill range during my pre-competitive era

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Killionz

Agreed, 100% actually, but as far as D6...

The skill gap in the bracket is so spread out, there should almost be an 8th division.

The majority of what I see, is some people SLAUGHTERING other people because of the huge skill jump between D6 & D7.

If that's not the case, there should be an A & B division (like TC_Halogen does with his tournaments) to prevent some of those issues.

Like I said, just my two cents! I'm not trying to argue with someone, but I don't agree with 75% of the way all of this has been set up so far.

I also heard that, depending on how well you do/progress overall, you can be bumped to higher divisions DURING the tournament. Can anyone confirm this? Because I would actually be amazed if that was the reality of getting better with 4k.

There's a skill gap in every single division, and no we're not adding an 8th division. This is getting to the point of ridiculousness. Let's just keep adding divisions till no one ever has to work for anything.

Like TC_Halogen does? I started that with my tournaments for the record and it will never happen in an official tournament.

People being bumped has to do with people who are suspected of holding back skill to be placed lower if they aren't removed completely for it. It's a case by case basis and doesn't happen that often. More often than not it happens because a player requests the bump.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Killionz

Agreed, 100% actually, but as far as D6...

The skill gap in the bracket is so spread out, there should almost be an 8th division.

The majority of what I see, is some people SLAUGHTERING other people because of the huge skill jump between D6 & D7.

Well, as one of the roadkill in that precise gap you are mentioning, I agree.
I also think that it's probably more work than you realize to create another division.
You get used to it. 2 Officials ago I was roadkill at the bottom of D5, then last official I worked my butt off and got 2nd place in D5.
Now I'm dead at the bottom of D6. I'd rather that than have the tournament become such a project it never happens at all.

Originally Posted by Killionz

If that's not the case, there should be an A & B division (like TC_Halogen does with his tournaments) to prevent some of those issues.

Like I said, just my two cents! I'm not trying to argue with someone, but I don't agree with 75% of the way all of this has been set up so far.

This has been suggested. The question is, where do you draw the line?
While I agree the like 60+ people in D5 is probably too big, I'd love to hear your argument for the ideal size of a division.

Originally Posted by Killionz

I also heard that, depending on how well you do/progress overall, you can be bumped to higher divisions DURING the tournament. Can anyone confirm this? Because I would actually be amazed if that was the reality of getting better with 4k.

Yeah this has happened in the past and is pretty stupid. Sometimes people ask to get bumped up, which is fine, but otherwise doing this involuntarily has as far as I can tell pretty much always been regarded as a mistake. I hope it doesn't happen this year. If people are truly sandbagging just ban them.

[ll sephirothll]

stop fighting. the game is shit and dead and i dont understand why you guys even made another official lol

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by ll sephirothll

stop fighting. the game is shit and dead and i dont understand why you guys even made another official lol

Edgey

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by ll sephirothll

stop fighting. the game is shit and dead and i dont understand why you guys even made another official lol

Then why are you here? Cool the trolling.

[Walrusizer]

Originally Posted by ll sephirothll

stop fighting. the game is shit and dead and i dont understand why you guys even made another official lol

nobody cares

[ll sephirothll]

that walrus mental kid is the one trolling lmao

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Killionz

Oh, preventing AAA-fests? What exactly is D6 turning out to be? I can already see 8-9 of them, and the rest are pretty much almost there.

Of course it's not a tee-ball game, and I never said that it should be one. However, having that much of a gap in relative difficulty, to ACTUAL difficulty, will turn a lot of people off.

I understand where you're coming from though, hihi, the first song should always be a "weeder". I'm not sure why that wasn't the goal in past tournaments.

With all due respect, you're missing the point of what this tournament was aiming to do. The overall idea was to reduce the number of perfect scores that came right out of the gates, and to more logically challenge the players within the division in a way without super-extreme cutoffs. In previous tournaments, players would find themselves eliminated in earlier rounds based off of their inability to do well on one song due to situations where the scores required to move to the next round were EXCESSIVELY low. There are numerous examples of this happening over the last five tournaments, but I think the most telling one was the cutoff to get into round 5 of the previous tournament for the same division you're talking about now: to get into round 5, players had to get a 1-0-0-2 or better on Poison of the Earth, which was an 82. The huge difference is not the difficulty, it's the amount of players contending with a given difficulty.

Yes, D6 has a VERY strong showing right now, but when you really think about it compared to previous tournaments, it's not quite as impressive and out of the ordinary as it seems. This current round 1 file is equal in difficulty to the round 3 song of the previous tournament, and that seems to be the case with just about every division -- this concept basically accelerates the tournament structure and is beneficial in two ways: it's more competitive and gives players who have substantial ability but not-so-lethal consistency an opportunity to play to their skill level later, and also allows for a wider breadth of difficulty from start to finish.

As far as why it wasn't the case in previous tournaments: you live and you learn. Five of the last six tournaments have been hosted by either me or psychoangel691, and things have been changed throughout the way, from the change to raw tournaments (8th), to an official D7 song list (9th), etc.

[.Gazelle.]

M A D C U Z B A D
A D C U Z B A D A
D C U Z B A D A B
C U Z B A D A B Z
U Z B A D A B Z U
Z B A D A B Z U C
B A D A B Z U C D
A D A B Z U C D A
D A B Z U C D A M
:^)

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by ll sephirothll

that walrus mental kid is the one trolling lmao

ll sephirothll

[flashpantss]

[badman7772]

c'mon d5 let's keep the tradition going where badman gets eliminated round 1 and in trying fashion.

[Killionz]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

Well, as one of the roadkill in that precise gap you are mentioning, I agree.
I also think that it's probably more work than you realize to create another division.
You get used to it. 2 Officials ago I was roadkill at the bottom of D5, then last official I worked my butt off and got 2nd place in D5.
Now I'm dead at the bottom of D6. I'd rather that than have the tournament become such a project it never happens at all.


This has been suggested. The question is, where do you draw the line?
While I agree the like 60+ people in D5 is probably too big, I'd love to hear your argument for the ideal size of a division.


Yeah this has happened in the past and is pretty stupid. Sometimes people ask to get bumped up, which is fine, but otherwise doing this involuntarily has as far as I can tell pretty much always been regarded as a mistake. I hope it doesn't happen this year. If people are truly sandbagging just ban them.

Thank you, I can see that this is affecting you, and quite a few other people in D6. I'm not saying that you have to divvy up the tournament in to A & B for each division (however, it would almost have to be set up that way to be fair), but the reality is, there is a LOW D6, a mid-range D6, and a high-range D6 (those that will AAA [ and I'm sure the round will end with at LEAST 20-30 more people AAA'ing that file]). That is an issue, and I feel as though it will turn a lot of people off, after being knocked out in round 1. There is a great amount of set up & organizing that needs to be done for tournaments in general, but you should have the resources and team available to do so, and this seems like there were a minuscule amount helping out, and it was rushed. It doesn't have to be a project that becomes so "grueling" that it never happens at all. However, if it is not set up properly, and the majority of people that entered are pissed off enough over certain things, it probably shouldn't have happened, period.

This is tricky, and the solution to this would be extraordinarily variable, but after talking to a few people, and looking over some things, it would almost be better off divided up like this:
D1: 10-25
D2: 26-35
D3: 36-45
D4: 46-55
D5: 56-65
D6: 66-75
D7: 76-85
D8: 85+

This would allow for less of a "gap" to be formed in D6, and still hold as challenging for each player, in each division. There's other prospects to that argument, but I'll just refer to the latter for now. I'm not even trying to argue with anyone here. I appreciate the work that each and every organizer & staff member put in to this tournament, and am very appreciative that I could be a part of it, but some changes need to be made in order to keep everyone in line, and happy with what they can ACTUALLY ("cough" d2/d4 "cough") do.

This is an issue that can be avoided easily, as you already stated. If someone is TRULY sandbagging, why even keep them as part of the community. I don't understand... A tournament is a big thing for a community, and if someone wants to be that UNFAIR about it, kick their ass... don't allow them to come back. You won't make EVERYONE happy, but you can at least try your hardest. Bumping them up a division is not going to solve anything, I assure you. As far as people being bumped up involuntarily, or perhaps, NOT per their request, that's actually lame, especially if it happens during the tournament. If you can't determine someone's skill level prior to the tournament, and feel the need to bump them up AFTER a couple rounds, that's absolutely unfair to them, and absolutely a mistake. Something like that should not happen at all, ever.