Ingame Song Information

[Overlord Lork]

I think that the criterion for a 13 should be "nobody will ever double-digit good this" Which right now includes DP, RATO, and vROFL.

"Legendary" wouldn't work well as a name since most 11s and 12s are far more legendary.

[Ratchetlombax]

Maybe follow the theme of For ___'s Only?
For Legends Only?
Or maybe...
For Gods Only? This one logically flows from the FFR Tiers (For Masters Only [Tier 2: FFR Master], For Guru's Only [Tier 1: FFR Guru], For Gods Only [Tier 0: FFR God])
I actually suggested this a while ago?

[Patashu]

Does a guru or a legend sound more impressive to you, though? It's ambiguous.

For Gods Only runs into conflict; you now have two difficulties that acronym to FGO

[i love gabba]

You don't need to be a legend to mash, call it Hardest or something God, it would make sense (I agree with the tier thing)

[Ratchetlombax]

Originally Posted by Patashu

Does a guru or a legend sound more impressive to you, though? It's ambiguous.

Personally, a legend sounds better IMHO I like the prospect of calling my FC of RATO an FLO FC, it flows! (pardon the pun)

Originally Posted by Patashu

For Gods Only runs into conflict; you now have two difficulties that acronym to FGO

A trivial matter, easily resolved as follows:
Abbreviate For Gods Only as FGodO

Probably should use the first.

Edit: should Vertex BETA vrofl be a high FLO or middle FLO? I'm archiving songs in a text document and don't know what to rank it...I guess it could be high FLO due to the continuous 1-framers in the alternating 64th jumps, but middle FLO because the streams near the end are only 30 taps/second. Help, please!

[stavie33]

FJO - For Jesus Only (I thought about For Gods Only but like Patashu said, two FGO's makes confusion, FJO is cool, I'm Jewish but we can't do For Moses Only cause' that's FMO as well, so FJO fits well)

[stavie33]

Edit: should Vertex BETA vrofl be a high FLO or middle FLO? I'm archiving songs in a text document and don't know what to rank it...I guess it could be high FLO due to the continuous 1-framers in the alternating 64th jumps, but middle FLO because the streams near the end are only 30 taps/second. Help, please!

Wow, we haven't even officially established a category and you're already trying to determine if it's high or low lvl? O_o

[alexdestructions]

Originally Posted by Ratchetlombax

Abbreviate For Gods Only as FGodO

FGodO?

Eh... not really that good of an abbreviation. Either we name it Hardest or make it stay unnamed. Because there's one level named Easiest, there should be a Hardest level.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by stavie33

We don't need a legendary difficulty, just a For Experts Only Difficulty

Move all songs difficulties 73-78 to FEO, songs 79-85 FMO, and 86+ FGO, makes it much more balanced IMO, sure, FGO would still have a stretch, but not as much of one IMO...I think this is better than making a category that only has 3 songs in it (but that might be doable as well)

Jimerax said that there won't be another difficulty addition, so there's really no point discussing it. =/

Why not just use the 13th difficulty already? People know the current system and understand that the only 13 is Vertex vROFL. It solves a lot of the 99 point scale issues too.

FEO (73-78), FMO (79-84), FGO (85-90), Legendary (91+)

84 (D2) Crowdpleaser (1236 Notes / BPM 120)
84 (M) Blue Rose (3622 Notes / BPM 170-180)
84 (M) Frictional Nevada (1325 Notes / BPM 225)
84 (M) Ketsarku Mozgalom (1635 Notes / BPM 174)

CP and Blue Rose don't belong in FMO either. >_<

Here's what I think--let's come up with a system that incorporates how people are judging the charts. Here's an example: I've seen a LOT people say that Choprite should be VC instead of FMO.

76 (M) Going On Spring Wind (1191 Notes / BPM 141)
76 (M) Novo Mundo (1264 Notes / BPM 140)
76 (D2) None Would Escape (1372 Notes / BPM 48-190)
76 (M) Choprite (1796 Notes / BPM 100-200)

Well, Novo and NWE are there too. I've seen a pretty decent amount of people say that those should be VC. We have our VC/FMO border (77).

Now, let's work our way up to the FMO/FGO area.

While there are a couple FGOs that many say should be FMO, we also have an issue, let's take another look at our FGO border.

84 (D2) Crowdpleaser (1236 Notes / BPM 120)
84 (M) Blue Rose (3622 Notes / BPM 170-180)
84 (M) Frictional Nevada (1325 Notes / BPM 225)
84 (M) Ketsarku Mozgalom (1635 Notes / BPM 174)

Yes, FN is pretty easy--FMO worthy. However, we also have Crowdpleaser in the way, which is barely FC'able. Next to that, a 6 minute technique issue, Blue Rose. So there's nothing we can really do to incorporate FN as FMO unless we lower the difficulty number (I think it should be 83, tbh).

Back to the upper area of the FMO section.

83 (A) Big Blue (1370 Notes / BPM 226)
83 (R) Blooddrunk [Heavy] (2275 Notes / BPM 180)
83 (C) Piano Etude (Gymnastics) (1253 Notes / BPM 40-166)

While there aren't many complaints about Big Blue or Blooddrunk not being FMO, I've seen a little bit of Gymnastics being suggested for FGO, and in fact, it was FGO for a while. I say bump that up to an 84 and call it FGO, then we have our border of 83.

Now, finally, we get to the upper area of the FGO section. While some of the newer songs have not been added to the front page, we can still make a good estimate off of where certain songs should be:

89 (C) One Minute Waltz (1057 Notes / BPM 160)
90 (C) Revolutionary Etude (1600 Notes / BPM 148)
91 (D2) Eclipse (Solar) (1445 Notes / BPM 165)
95 (C) Death Piano (2453 Notes / BPM 43-200)

OMW is pretty worthy of FGO, it can stay where it is. Revo, while very difficult to combo, is also pretty nice where it is. Eclipse, maybe should be a 90? But let's pause for a second. Now we need to throw RATO in the mix, because it is a VERY good debate for where the FGO cut-off can be.

While DP is extremely difficult, FC's have been recorded on it. The same can be said for RATO. So now we dig a bit deeper, and look at some of the top scores.

While DP has only 2 FCs, RATO has 20. So, RATO might be 94.

If people continue to say that RATO is too hard for FGO, we have a pretty good cut-off line.

TL;DR VERSION
FMO (77-83), FGO (84-93), Legendary (94+)

Now argue about how I'm wrong. =D!

[alexdestructions]

Does anyone think CCCP should be a 90 or 89? The patterns are hard to PA and FC, and no one is going to AAA it so it could be a 90.


Oh and I agree that maybe 94+ should be the legendary point.

[stavie33]

CCCP is 90 IMO, it's probably never gonna be AAA'd, same with Eclipse, Here we go, Almost There, DP, and RATO

and Halogen, if I was using my system I'd kick Crowdpleaser and Blue Rose up to 85's, I honestly think they should both be 85's, just like Strawberry Sweetz (I still think due to patterns, length, massive amounts of 4 framers, and rare but insane 32nd parts, it should be 86, btjm)

Crowdpleaser 85 due to the fact that if you can't vibrate, you can't FC, and Blue Rose 85 due to length, trill, and the jacks (2 framers, most of them)

Now I'm gonna try to FC RATO!

EDIT: Double Setup is impossible now, right? Because I don't see how anyone can FC RATO without that (unless they are quad vibrating, which is beyond my natural comprehension O_o)

[Ratchetlombax]

Originally Posted by stavie33

I don't see how anyone can FC RATO without that (unless they are quad vibrating, which is beyond my natural comprehension O_o)

I FC'd it with Quad Vibing. Its rly not that hard, just place your fingers (2-4, depending on if you're spread, OH or index) on the keys and tense up your hands while holding each key half-pressed, should work out great.
FGO Mash FC's FTW!

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by Ratchetlombax

I FC'd it with Quad Vibing. Its rly not that hard, just place your fingers (2-4, depending on if you're spread, OH or index) on the keys and tense up your hands while holding each key half-pressed, should work out great.
FGO Mash FC's FTW!

but that hurts my shoulders...I can't keep it up that long, wow, well good for you! You have an FC on the hardest song in the game next to vrofl yet you haven't AAA'd a VC song...happens...I guess that's kinda like me, in a way...I can SDG some FGO's and I can't even FC others

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by stavie33

and Halogen, if I was using my system I'd kick Crowdpleaser and Blue Rose up to 85's, I honestly think they should both be 85's, just like Strawberry Sweetz (I still think due to patterns, length, massive amounts of 4 framers, and rare but insane 32nd parts, it should be 86, btjm)

Crowdpleaser 85 due to the fact that if you can't vibrate, you can't FC, and Blue Rose 85 due to length, trill, and the jacks (2 framers, most of them)

Oh, most definitely. There are quite a few things I would change, but I was just giving a general difficulty range.

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Oh, most definitely. There are quite a few things I would change, but I was just giving a general difficulty range.

Overall though, I really liked how you looked at the borders and set things up, it was well organized IMO, but I'd expect no less from a pro like you!

[jimerax]

Yeah too bad FEO idea (or anything that changes current 1-12 system) was completely rejected by Tass/Synth a while ago.

currently, I hate those facts.
1. FGO is so wide-ranged (there's huge difficulty gap between 85 songs and 95+ songs)
2. The median of difficulty ratings should be in Standard-Difficult, but currently it's in VD-VC.

1 could be solved by using 13th difficulty, but we have to name it first to use it normally.
any ideas other than FGodsO/Hardest/Legendary?

also, I'm still putting CP lowest FGO because trills are like hardest thing ever but CP but other parts are like C.

as for new harder songs,
CCCP = 90 (a bit easier than Eclipse)
Across Rooftops = 85 (similar with songs like Blue Rose/HO/PK)
Church Bells = 78 (beginning jumpjacks are hard)
We Wish You A Merry XMas = 71 (hard to pa, doesn't require stamina/speed though)

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by stavie33

Overall though, I really liked how you looked at the borders and set things up, it was well organized IMO, but I'd expect no less from a pro like you!

Hey, thanks. =D

Originally Posted by jimerax

currently, I hate those facts.
1. FGO is so wide-ranged (there's huge difficulty gap between 85 songs and 95+ songs)
2. The median of difficulty ratings should be in Standard-Difficult, but currently it's in VD-VC.

There really is. =/

It's really hard to come up with a solid ranking because difficulty of songs is completely subjective; everyone has their own opinion on it. But at least subdividing the FGO section a little bit, we can pretty much settle all of the complaints for the 13th level.

As far as the huge gap, there's really not much we can do except put a cap somewhere in the low 90s for that 13th level. (I hate saying this, we need a name. XD) Too low, and you get some FGOs that don't belong; too high and there won't be any songs--not a solution really. I think the absolute lowest you can put this line is 92, because Eclipse is NOT a 13.

One more thing: as large as the gap is, take into account that there really are not that many FGOs, and the middle of the FGO rating is 91.5 at the moment (considering vROFL--otherwise it's 89.5). Most of the songs cover between 84 and 90. Most of these songs have no debate about being higher than FGO, so it really doesn't matter that the gap is there.

And yeah, there are way too many VD/VCs; it gives lower lever players less songs to play. There was an FMO/FGO event--maybe having a lower level queue event might help...except you guys (talking about the batch judges) are going to get absolutely SWAMPED with files if it turns out like I think. xD

[Kairon]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

As far as the huge gap, there's really not much we can do except put a cap somewhere in the low 90s for that 13th level. (I hate saying this, we need a name. XD) Too low, and you get some FGOs that don't belong; too high and there won't be any songs--not a solution really. I think the absolute lowest you can put this line is 92, because Eclipse is NOT a 13.

Regarding what FGOs are worthy of 13th-level status, I'm tempted to say that Revolutionary Etude is low-end 13-worthy, only because in the nearly 4 years it's been around, nobody's been able to AAA it or even SDG. Despite being technically one point "easier" than Eclipse, it has a worse overall PA average and only a fraction of the FCs. Of course, the problem with making it a 13 would be that the cutoff bar would be set at 90, which is probably too low. Unless some songs are moved around, of course.

Anyway, name thoughts:

I don't like For Gods Only. Mainly because of the acronym. Hardest makes sense, but isn't very dramatic. Legendary (or maybe For Legends Only) I quite like. It's epic and fitting. I think Deadly would also work. Simple, but effective.

[TC_Halogen]

For Mashers Only. Oh wait. Stupid acronym. (JOKING)

Erm, yeah, I would like Legendary/For Legends Only too. It does seem fitting.

[i love gabba]

GoSW is definitely not FMO, really. Should REALLY be downgraded to VC, after all those new crazy FMO...