Ingame Song Information

[stavie33]

How could anyone make Op. 10 a VC? If it becomes one, we may as well start moving Choprite, Novo, Jeanie, and nearly every other low FMO into VC territory. The jacks in Op 10 are clear FMO material, something that no VC currently has, or should have, same reason Novo is an FMO, since a roll wall like that is in nearly no VC.

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

Jacks probably wouldn't seem as daunting to most FFR players as they are today if the avmiss glitch never existed and more jack-heavy files were accepted in the past as opposed to just March? 2008 and later. Even then, tons of stepartists were probably reluctant to submit jack-heavy files after the reception that Club received lol.

On a related note, difficulty spikes are fucking gay and will always cause arguments when trying to determine the difficulty of a file. My personal opinion, I don't think the jacks in Op. 10 are really enough to push the file over the FMO barrier but clearly the statistics prove otherwise.

p.s. still firmly believe Jamais Deux should be FMO just because it's only 800 notes long if you completely Disregard the VD level intro that goes for 400 notes...had it been three straight minutes of 240 bpm jumpstream and weird bursts, yeah FGO for sure, but it's like 70 seconds or probably even less...then again, you could counter with Lolo but that should probably be FMO too lmao

Look, we NEED to stop moving borderline files everywhere, it's causing a lot of trouble and screwing up the rating system. We have borderline files for a reason, and if we move them we look at them at what their position is as the cutoff line.

Not a single VC is as hard to AAA as Op 10, so it's a FMO borderline file, since nothing under it is as hard (Choprite should be VC though, it's soooo much easier than 80% of upper VC's, and has nearly no hard parts that compare to FMO's). Likewise, nothing under Lolo is as hard as Lolo or Jamaix. Can you think of one FMO that compares to the speed part in Jamaix and the 32nd stream wall? The highest FMO's are Anti-ares and Gymnastics. Gymnastics is pretty much mid-VC through low FMO until a 3 second mini jack jump fest, THREE ****ING SECONDS. Lolo is 36 seconds of brutal, fast, framer filled mess of an FGO. If it were 2 minutes of that shit I'm sure it would be around the difficulty of Kidney Stone.

These files should remain where they are, unless you can find a lower file with similar patterns or consistency (which I don't see for Op 10 at all, no VC has anything that can compare to it's jacks, also, Club is leagues easier than it IMO). We've defined them as border files, and until a change in the system, leave them unless it's blatantly obvious, stats included. In this case, Choprite should be VC.

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

Um yeah, I just tried Op. 10 again and got 3 random goods in the 32nd triples lol. It's been a long time since I've played the file and still manage to AAA the jacks first try (and this is with my right wrist currently in a weird condition). They aren't even that long, and if you guys think the short 16th jumpjack section right after is hard, I'm starting to doubt how there are so many good scores on heavy jacking files like bmv and Across Rooftops that have MUCH worse anchors. The jumpjacks flow perfectly fine and are at a good speed.

bmv jacks are the nastiest shit ever, can't do them worth crap, way too many. Op. 10 jacks are close by, but not as difficult. Across Rooftops jacks are piss easy don't know what you're smoking, the only thing that makes the file remotely hard is the jump patterns at the end, which are less jacks and more mini jacks/jumps. This is all IMO of course

EDIT: Hammy made my triple post go away, nice, never seen that done before

[bmah]

Yes, I do actually concur that you have to set a boundary somewhere. The only reason why it's still being debated is that 1) it's yet to be "official", or 2) there are other ideas being tossed around on increasing the difficulty scale to 1-15, etc.

Also, you have to define how you measure difficulty. Stavie is comparing how hard it is to AAA songs, whereas others will focus on how hard it is to generally PA a song (on other rhythm games, it would generally be how hard it is to pass a song). Again, no set of measurement has been official.

[psychoangel691]

Can we just make a better scale already. -_-

[bmah]

You can bet that hasn't been done because no one has volunteered to look through the entire FFR songlist and change difficulties on an undetermined number of songs, along with an undetermined consensus in the first place.

You also can't ignore the lower difficulties, which many people in this discussion tend to assume that they're in their "correct" placements, or have someone else - which is no one - determine these difficulties.

Then you gotta change the FFR interface to represent the new difficulties and whatnot. It's not a surprise that we're still only discussing the ideas...endlessly.

I'm not the one to advocate difficulty changes, but if you want something to happen, perhaps:

1) Make a new thread. This helps make something more "official" or give a more serious tone to the issue. Hopefully the issue would be addressed more readily.
2) Veterans can decide upon the much-debated 9-13 difficulties. Find qualified people to look into the 1-8 difficulties.
2.5] Decide specific parameters and stay consistent on that to determine difficulties. Consistent. Consistent.
3) Suggest an idea to fit the new difficulty scale into the FFR interface. Maybe give ideas to Zageron and Velocity. Includes physical appearances and coding and whatnot. There could be a temporary change to the current engine, and a preferred, updated look for Blackwebbs.
4) For future songs, stick with 2.5].

[ScarletSky]

I'd do it. >.>

[SKG_Scintill]

why is the downloadable mp3 of nanairopanda called nanatsuropanda?

[yo man im awesome]

Hmm. It seems I may end up having to finish revamping the 10-13 difficulty system myself....



Anyway, I'm with Bmah on that people are refusing to accept change and variety in files. Variety is what's going to keep this game going. If we had no "Mt. Everest" files and such, the game would grow more and more boring, which clearly it has to more and more people lately. Quite honestly, if there weren't files like Crowdpleaser or Holy Orders, I probably would have stopped playing FFR, and only continued using the forums.

I also agree that Op.10 should be a VC. If we were going on the basis that Stavie is going on with judging difficulty based off of how hard it is to AAA, there are songs like ABCDEath and Bury the Hatchet that have some weird stuff, preventing AAA's, like Op.10's jumpjacks. There's also the jacks in CSGS. It's not the speed of the jacks, it's the amount of jacks that prevent AAA's. Honestly, I can't even FC it, but I don't feel it should be an FMO. And then of course there's always the For FFR file. It's pretty self explanatory.

[MaxGhost]

Am I the only one who thinks "Easy Listening" is extremely ****ing difficult listening? I hate those.

[I like it]

Ok, this has probably been brought up multiple times so don't get mad at me for it BUT, Novo Mundo is too easy to be an 11, thats all.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

Hmm. It seems I may end up having to finish revamping the 10-13 difficulty system myself....



Anyway, I'm with Bmah on that people are refusing to accept change and variety in files. Variety is what's going to keep this game going. If we had no "Mt. Everest" files and such, the game would grow more and more boring, which clearly it has to more and more people lately. Quite honestly, if there weren't files like Crowdpleaser or Holy Orders, I probably would have stopped playing FFR, and only continued using the forums.

I also agree that Op.10 should be a VC. If we were going on the basis that Stavie is going on with judging difficulty based off of how hard it is to AAA, there are songs like ABCDEath and Bury the Hatchet that have some weird stuff, preventing AAA's, like Op.10's jumpjacks. There's also the jacks in CSGS. It's not the speed of the jacks, it's the amount of jacks that prevent AAA's. Honestly, I can't even FC it, but I don't feel it should be an FMO. And then of course there's always the For FFR file. It's pretty self explanatory.

Kayla and I have considered going through all of FFR's files and re-ranking them on a different scale, but we don't want to go through a huge time and effort only to have FFR Staff say no to it.

What needs to be done: update the in-game song information thread with all of the songs having their proper 1-100 difficulties, have the community argue/whine/cry about them enough to get them perfect, and then update the .xmls/database entries with the new difficulties.

And it's very easy to remove the bar that has the actual difficulty name to accommodate for this change, so that would be a poor excuse out of it.

[yo man im awesome]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Kayla and I have considered going through all of FFR's files and re-ranking them on a different scale, but we don't want to go through a huge time and effort only to have FFR Staff say no to it.

What needs to be done: update the in-game song information thread with all of the songs having their proper 1-100 difficulties, have the community argue/whine/cry about them enough to get them perfect, and then update the .xmls/database entries with the new difficulties.

And it's very easy to remove the bar that has the actual difficulty name to accommodate for this change, so that would be a poor excuse out of it.

Well, iironiic, qqwref, and I got approval to revamp the system on a 1-15 format. Originally we all had 4 genres to work with, since we were only fixing 10+ and Dance doesn't go above 8. I'm not mad at them for not doing it, quite honestly, I couldn't care, because it's a good bit of work, and not everyone has the time for it. I already finished doing the Classical, Misc, Purchased, and Funk genres, if you'd like to see them, Aj.

[rushyrulz]

sooo is Fast Asleep an 11 yet?
Didj PVC is like 3 times more spaced out and is only hard in one or two sections. I can barely break 5 goods on Fast Asleep with a AAA on Didj. Both should be 11s regardless.

[yo man im awesome]

I didn't do Fast Asleep, but I would say it's a High 11 on the 1-15 scale, being a "For Experts Only". I'll send you the list of classic, misc, funk and purchased songs too if you like.

[MaxGhost]

In regards to Op 10, here's my take:
- I've FC'd all the VCs, but not Op 10.
- I have 43 FMO FCs, none of them are Op 10.
- The jump sections are comparable in speed to BKE, and this is easily a low-mid FMO.
- The jacks are comparable in speed with Largiloquent Dithramb, which is easily a mid-high FMO.
- The jumpstreams are just as dense as EHHS, just a little bit slower, and EHHS is easily a mid-high FMO.

I have absolutely NO idea how you can think this is a VC. I can't FC this song AT ALL. There's just no way I can FC the 48th jacks.

[justin_ator]

Op 10 is FMO if you ask me... In all seriousness I really have always wondered why we bother making a 1-13, 1-15, etc system when the songs are already rated as 1-100 or whatever. Why don't we just use that list and difficulty, and go with that...it's far more accurate because you can argue an individual song placement due to the file itself, instead of having to say "This doesn't belong with FMO's because it's not as hard as these other ones!" If you eliminate "FMO", then all 65's stay 65's. You can argue that a song is a 65, but you don't have the argument that 'it's not the same difficulty as the rest of the 63's, 64's, 65's, 66's, 67's, and 68's. That is our problem. We judge by grouping a range of difficulties, and not by specifics on difficulties. Granted all of the judging is relevant to different standards and by definition we are judging 'in groups' even with what I just suggested, but it is a far smaller group and a lot more likely to be accurate. Jimerax (if I remember correctly) has a running list of all the songs in game and their difficulty. Just use that...

[rushyrulz]

Dear whichever lunatic suggested that Op10 is a VC,

You're a lunatic.

Love,
Rushy

[yo man im awesome]

I replayed op10 to find that I had forgotten how difficult it got after the jacks. Its not quite high fmo, its a low fmo. But fmo undoubtedly.

[SKG_Scintill]

just remove op.10

[xXAll-ProXx]

ONE PERSON said Op.10 should be a VC a week ago and this is still being debated lol.

[yo man im awesome]

It's like Fast Asleep all over again...