Epicly pissed

[Ground_Breaker]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Yes, people choose to be repressed, insulted, hated, known by society as second-class citizens, and marked for death by extremists.

Definitely.

Sigh.

That's a problem with society, not homosexuality.

[Grandiagod]

you're missing a point or two

[Ground_Breaker]

My original point was that yes, I agree with NFD that camps like this are stupid. I'm not looking for a pointless argument, nor am I going to be goaded into getting into one. I believe that it's a choice, and none of you are going to prove me otherwise by any amount of argument, so you're missing my point, which only has to do with the camps.

The reason I mentioned the fact that I believe homosexuality is a choice was to add weight to how stupid a lot of people think the camps are.

[Kairon]

Oh man, this just steams my carrots.

If I was Austen, I'd probably just sit quiety through the whole process, claim it made a difference, and then, when I turn 18, surprise my parents with a home video of me ****ing some guy up the ass.

Originally Posted by Squeek

Yes, people choose to be repressed, insulted, hated, known by society as second-class citizens, and marked for death by extremists.

Definitely.

To be fair, homosexuality is a choice in the sense that you choose whether or not to act on homosexual urges. You could, after all, live the life of a straight man while secretly wishing you could have a go at your neighbor Steve.

But you can't choose who you are attracted to, any more than you can choose your favorite color.

And trying to get people to live a life that denies those urges and treats them as sick (as if they were getting the urge to stab the president) is mad.

And forcibly sending people to a camp to try to pray those urges away (as if they were trying to get rid of some flesh-eating disease) is insane.

It's so sad because I was brought up Christian, thinking it was all nice and pleasant, and now I'm realizing that there are plenty of "fellow Christians" who are the kind of people I wouldn't give shelter to during the last days of a devastating meteorite shower.

[Reach]

You could, after all, live the life of a straight man while secretly wishing you could have a go at your neighbor Steve.

No, you can't. Sexual repression doesn't work. The churches ideological stance on this is so out of tune with reality it's unbelievable. At best, it just turns you into a sexually abnormal individual. Many of us have seen the stats on priests. The minuscule fraction of them that actually do adhere to celibacy are in line with the normal population distribution of people with low sex drives to begin with.

Ted Haggard is a great example of why it doesn't work. Evangelical pastor and leader, gay hater and ironically closet homosexual that spent his free time away from family with gay prostitutes.

Interestingly, more than one study has shown that those with homophobic views showed the most arousal to homosexual pornography.



Anyway yeah, the fact that such 'pray the gay away' camps exist is rather frightening. I mean, I laughed when I first read it, since it's absurd, but then died inside a little when I realized it was for real.

[Izzy]

I really hate christianity. I wish i could strangle it with my own two hands.

[Kairon]

Originally Posted by Reach

No, you can't. Sexual repression doesn't work. The churches ideological stance on this is so out of tune with reality it's unbelievable. At best, it just turns you into a sexually abnormal individual.

That's kinda what I meant. It would be possible to attempt to live a straight life as a gay person. However, it probably wouldn't last very long and it would most likely end up being very damaging to all involved.

[fido123]

Originally Posted by Ground_Breaker

My original point was that yes, I agree with NFD that camps like this are stupid. I'm not looking for a pointless argument, nor am I going to be goaded into getting into one. I believe that it's a choice, and none of you are going to prove me otherwise by any amount of argument, so you're missing my point, which only has to do with the camps.

The reason I mentioned the fact that I believe homosexuality is a choice was to add weight to how stupid a lot of people think the camps are.

You have to take other peoples arguments seriously. You don't really have a whole lot of ground to talk on compared to somebody with experience. If I could be heterosexual believe me I would, however no matter what way I look at it I'm attracted to guys. I've tried watching hetero/lesbian porn but I honestly just don't get anything out of it. This is why homosexuality isn't a choice. Keep in mind everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but an opinion is educated, otherwise you're just assuming. It pisses me off when people just blindly say "OH ITS A CHOICE" because they don't have a ****ing clue. Sorry if I seem a bit mean but I find it all a bit offensive. If you have reasoning to back yourself up with I would gladly hear it.

Also to NFD, that sucks. However from what you've told me he at least needs some kind of physiological help, but I don't think this is going to work. Again, arrogant Christians at work (arrogant meaning the ones that are, not that Christianity is arrogant.)

[Quigly]

Christianity ahahaha. Some of them believe in the stupidest kinds of crap.

Makes me glad I'm not a Christian anymore.

[A2P]

Here's an idea. If you're being confronted by an aggressive christian about your beliefs...ask them to forgive you.

[xealix]

Wow, thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard. I hope you find a way to help your friend out NFD. . .
I personally don't see a camp like that working at all, They could never change what you really feel, only make you act like it's been changed. I rarely pray and when i do nothing happens anyways so i have no idea what the point is other then to let these kids know that they are hated by certain people in society. Its pretty ****ing bogus...
Im just happy no one i know is having to go through this.

[Izzy]

They need these camps for christian people to bring them back to reality. I'm sure that would have a much higher chance of success. It's been done in the past to force people christian.

[Draigun]

Wait, so if he doesn't want to go.. how about he just make as much trouble as he can when he gets there? If he doesn't want to be there, so what if he gets in trouble?

[NFD]

Originally Posted by Kairon

Oh man, this just steams my carrots.

If I was Austen, I'd probably just sit quiety through the whole process, claim it made a difference, and then, when I turn 18, surprise my parents with a home video of me ****ing some guy up the ass.

Austen's my ex. He wasn't the guy in the relationship =X

[Redorigami]

Originally Posted by NFD

Austen's my ex. He wasn't the guy in the relationship =X

Even better.

[Oni-Paranoia]

I feel bad, that crap is brainwashing.. (wish him gl)
Went on a retreat (3 days, no contact with anyone but the people on the retreat, no ipod, no games, no cell phones etc, everything church related)

Came back, I was all happy and what not.. 3 days later i snap back to reality and no im not atheist.. science ftw ;]

P.s. Went because my (ex)gf.. waste of $175; Food was bomb though

[retching oesophagus]

Camps like these are just... ugh. Everyone there should just get it on like at the end of Perfume if they want to show those fundamentalist christian retards.

[championanwar]

All of this is shameful. People are who they are.

[Ground_Breaker]

Originally Posted by fido123

Keep in mind everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but an opinion is educated, otherwise you're just assuming. It pisses me off when people just blindly say "OH ITS A CHOICE" because they don't have a ****ing clue. Sorry if I seem a bit mean but I find it all a bit offensive. If you have reasoning to back yourself up with I would gladly hear it.

I'm not blindly saying "OH IT'S A CHOICE" and I'm not trying to shove my opinion down anyone's throat. I see no benefit for you or me or anyone else by divulging more than just the surface of my beliefs for a few reasons:

1) This is chit-chat.
2) It never gets anywhere, because neither of us will ever be swayed.
3) It's not very interesting.

It says more about you than it does about me when I can't simply state my opinion without people like you, who needlessly defend themselves whenever they can, interjecting and saying, "WHOA WHOA WHOA WAIT JUST A MINUTE THERE BUD, YOU AREN'T EXACTLY EINSTEIN IF YOU DON'T THINK THE WAY I DO." This is just another of those silly issues on which people will most likely never agree, so I don't see how arguing about it will get anywhere.

On topic: The camps are still a stupid idea.

[kommisar[os]]

i can see this turning into a religious debate....


also homosexuality isn't a choice, but it most certainly doesn't mean you're choosing to be hated by people since that comes with all beliefs. You choose to be christian i can guarantee you people will hate you for as many reasons as christians hate homosexuals.