Let the shutdown begin

[Reincarnate]

This is the problem when people get in bed politically with the Tea Partiers.

If certain members of the GOP didn't use this opportunity to oppose Obamacare, supporters would claim they weren't conservative enough and label them RINOs. Goodbye election chances!

The Republicans know they have no leverage but they have to grandstand to hold consistency -- and they hope to win some side-points if people interpret things as "Obama not negotiating." If they get something more out of it, so much the better (which is consistent with that guy's quote who said "We need to get something out of this, but idk what").

[FoJaR]

growing up it was always appeal to the middle, is the country dividing idealogically or is this just a vocal minority situation.

really though it doesnt matter since white power is on the way out. probably why they're such a terrified vocal minority.

[Litodude]

the middle is the democratic party though when ur so far right lol

[FoJaR]

big ups to Scott Rigell (R-Virginia)

way to be an adult bro.

[Snowcrafta]

Republican is a quickly dying party due to social media and the fact they have no young generation to fill their shoes

[FoJaR]

and because they've veered so far of center. just so far.

[0o0]

this shutdown brought to you in part by the word "conversation"

[igotrhythm]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

growing up it was always appeal to the middle, is the country dividing idealogically or is this just a vocal minority situation.

really though it doesnt matter since white power is on the way out. probably why they're such a terrified vocal minority.

Pretty sure it's the outspoken minority kind of situation. Dems are trying a last-ditch effort to force a bill to a vote, but it needs 18 Republicans to pass and it'll take at least a week for the process to run its course.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by Snowcrafta

Republican is a quickly dying party due to social media and the fact they have no young generation to fill their shoes

Pretty sure the social media thing is just an illusion. Left-leaning people are just so much noisier on social media, so it appears that their mindset is the dominant one, while right-leaning people just shut up and vote.

As far as the youth vote, when has the Republican party ever had it? They're still around because people grow into the right.

Regarding the right-shift, Republicans might be losing some of the moderate vote, but they pick up the tea party vote which, in my estimation, is not a loss. Republicanism over the past twenty years has been awfully mealy-mouthed and contributed greatly to many of the problems we have today, so people who are fed up with it gravitate toward the tea party republicans so that shit can actually get done, hence 2010.

--Guido

[adlp]

guido where have you been ive needed some political backup lately but youve been on hiatus

also update: i am pro-life now regardless of circumstance woo

[FoJaR]

seriously?

[gnr61]

in order to keep a tenable model of democratic governance we agree to certain norms in the process of putting legislation into law; should the shutdown prove in any way successful we are looking at an ugly precedent: the capacity of the minority (in this case one half of one third of the government branches) to repeal or demand the alteration of already-passed and supreme-court vetted legislation it doesn't like by threat of stopping things that should *also* fall into givens of governance (ie. raising/abolishing the debt ceiling, actually *running* the government), which can't be bargaining chips lest the whole thing fall to pieces.

this isn't a matter of "they refused to negotiate." some functions of government cannot be seen as valid for leveraging by the losing party; this REALLY can't be spun as anything other than hostage taking.

[FoJaR]

100% chance your wife dies if the child is born and you do it?

i guess i should wait until you get married for this question, but i believe your answer will be different then.

[gnr61]

o come on this is not a reasonable place to pick on someone for their abortion views that's just picking a fight for no reason

EDIT: outside of actual legislative issues of abortion i see no real reason to debate it at all since it's inflammatory and either side is coming from perspectives on the matter with no overlap to play point-counterpoint with

[FoJaR]

sorry i'm not picking on him i'm legitimately surprised

[Snowcrafta]

Adlp is our most openly conservative user, so his stance stands true.

Women should have a choice, and the men produced the fetus deserves say in it as well. That's what pro choice is about. The man and woman come together and talk about the child, but if it's an unreasonable option after a discussion (women go through huge emotional trauma because of abortions) and the choose that is what is best, let them. We all want kids, but we have to give them the choice - they have 9 months to decide.

Abortion should be legal for the same reason birth control should be governmentally funded. The more the lower class reproduces, the more we all, as taxpayers, have to pay to support their welfare. Take God out of the argument and you're left with nothing.

[FoJaR]

this is the wrong thread, i'm talking to ADLP somewhere else now, lets get back to this government and how it's not moving

[Litodude]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

hence 2010.

--Guido

Citizen's United v FEC was such a great ruling thanks uew Republican-based God

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

Republicanism over the past twenty years has been awfully mealy-mouthed and contributed greatly to many of the problems we have today, so people who are fed up with it gravitate toward the tea party republicans so that shit can actually get done, hence 2010.

--Guido

and then after that failed experiment in radicalism, 2012 happened.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by adlp

guido where have you been ive needed some political backup lately but youve been on hiatus

also update: i am pro-life now regardless of circumstance woo

serious question: so I assume you also imply that if a woman is raped, she must carry it to term even if she cannot afford to raise it / risks health issues / would be traumatized perpetually. What is your rationale behind "regardless of circumstance" in this circumstance? Would you not agree that this would be giving a rapist more autonomy over a woman's body than the woman herself? What about emergency contraception?