Shall you give more points to players using higher speed ?

[Painlov]

Hello guys,

I've been playing this game for quite a while now, had a sudden stop a long time ago but started playing again and I was wondering why do I have to receive the same amount of points when I play on 2.3 or 2.6x speed compared to someone whose speed is lower than mine.

Do you consider speed as a mere option which doesn't increase the difficulty but just suits one's taste ? I agree that the point is to clear the song properly but my way of enjoying this game is about how high can I set the song's key speed and still do it somehow properly.

So I was wondering if there were other people like me who would actually enjoy some rewards for playing the game that way. That way would allow the top scores to have a different value instead of everyone having the same just because everyone did a perfect score. Allowing some kind of bonus points for speed would end up like Osu giving players the will to change their options in order to get more points which would kill the routine installed in this game.

Well those are just my arguments not saying you're wrong or right and whatever you do I'll just keep enjoying it my way. I just thought it was something to think about.

[Charu]

Whoa... this was seriously your first post?

Well, welcome to the FFR Forums!

...

A'ite, now that's out of the way. I think this has been discussed before when rates was finally built into the R3 engine. Though I believe at the time it was more "would scores record" or not.

I think in terms of score, I think what you're asking is pretty much impossible with the way FFR handles scores. But even then, it'll come back down to the age old discussion I mentioned about "should it record".

The flat out answer was no. Reason being... I think had something to do with discouraging lower end players and it would make some slow songs (like this 5 minute long easy rock songs) EASIER to play through.

[Painlov]

Hehe yeah not really the active type on forums ^-^.

I see, sorry didn't know it had already been discussed.

Have a nice day.

[MinaciousGrace]

Originally Posted by Painlov

kill the routine installed in this game.

anyone left isn't bothered by this

[inDheart]

important thing to disambiguate: do you mean speed, like the scroll speed of the arrows, or rate, like the rate of the music?

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Painlov

So I was wondering if there were other people like me who would actually enjoy some rewards for playing the game that way. That way would allow the top scores to have a different value instead of everyone having the same just because everyone did a perfect score. Allowing some kind of bonus points for speed would end up like Osu giving players the will to change their options in order to get more points which would kill the routine installed in this game.

If you're referring strictly to the speed mod for the arrows, no bonus should be given for that. Rates? Sure a few credits extra would be a neat little reward. Maybe a skill token or two. But should it ever affect your score?

Absolutely not, ever.

It's one of the many pet peeves I have with Osu, that in order to do well on the leader-boards you have to play with shitty mods that make an already overly difficulty file harder. (As if your life drain rate at double BPM for no explicable reasoning wasn't difficult / dumb / unnecessary enough.) It ends up taking away the reward and makes the playing of these mods become the norm or routine, and further increases the difficulty curve to get into the game competitively. It manages to even out weigh my hatred of having to play certain files with shit skins, or the people who are absolutely silly and add nonsensical sound effects to a song. (Me being able to disable them, does not overrule this.) It doesn't make it better, and it makes it harder to focus on the song as a whole.

tldr: It's shitty game design if it affects the leader-boards, but if it was just a credit boost or the occasional skill token, I wouldn't have an issue with it and kinda encourage it even if it's possible.

In fact as a side note I'd be somewhat pressed to say I don't think Osu would be as "good" or popular a game if they didn't have the same level of song selection Stepmania has. I wouldn't be able to say based on trying to play Osu that I think the game play is that great. (Except for Taiko, which I love as a game mode and wish I wasn't garbage at it. I can play it decent at an arcade but transitioning it to a keyboard for some reason doesn't work well for me.)

[Mahou]

Originally Posted by XelNya

It ends up taking away the reward and makes the playing of these mods become the norm or routine, and further increases the difficulty curve to get into the game competitively.

Lol what?

If anything, the reward should be greater if you're playing something at a higher difficulty (even if it has to be done through mods). Imo, if the difficulty remains stagnant for all songs, then there really isn't much competition. A lot of players won't have much want in getting better.

[Walrusizer]

yeah if youre talking about rewarding players for playing on a higher speedmod thats never going to happen because its literally preference and playing on 2.8x isnt any harder than playing on 2.5x.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Mahou

Lol what?

Think back to the days of combo scoring in that all scores without a full combo were pretty much useless. Imagine if that was the case, but with mods.

[Mahou]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Think back to the days of combo scoring in that all scores without a full combo were pretty much useless. Imagine if that was the case, but with mods.

Just like many other players, I'm against the traditional combo scoring that FFR first started out on; however, regardless of what type of scoring system a vsrg uses, I do believe the reward would still be greater since you're making the songs harder by the use of mods.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Mahou

Just like many other players, I'm against the traditional combo scoring that FFR first started out on; however, regardless of what type of scoring system a vsrg uses, I do believe the reward would still be greater since you're making the songs harder by the use of mods.

Enforcing mod play for a higher score is the same as enforcing everyone to full combo everything for the score to be worth while.

[rushyrulz]

Enhanced scoring for rate scores would be so unbelievably unfair for newer players it's uncanny. The gods of D7 would sweep in and AAA Trip to the Moon on 18x and make any 1x AAAs completely meaningless. We already have an elitism complex in this community and this definitely would not help one bit.

[Mahou]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Enforcing mod play for a higher score is the same as enforcing everyone to full combo everything for the score to be worth while.

Not necessarily, but I kind of see what direction you're trying to point me in.

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Enhanced scoring for rate scores would be so unbelievably unfair for newer players it's uncanny. The gods of D7 would sweep in and AAA Trip to the Moon on 18x and make any 1x AAAs completely meaningless. We already have an elitism complex in this community and this definitely would not help one bit.

Agreed.

I guess the type mods I was referring to was visual mods; but even then, I didn't realize that some visual mods actually helped players vs making the difficulty spike. And like what lurker said, it would be really hard to compare scores on top songs (i.e someone AAAing something on hidden vs someone playing without any mods).

[Nano Desu]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Enforcing mod play for a higher score is the same as enforcing everyone to full combo everything for the score to be worth while.

yes but the issue with fc'ing for a relevant score is that scores that are really good despite one miss are given less score than shitty mashed bad acc fcs.

with things like song rate or mods, you don't have scores that are objectively worse than others being ranked higher. The only issue with a system like this however is determining a proper bonus for using rates/mods.

Personally, I thin only rates should give a score bonus like this, and not visual mods. most people use visual mods to help them, not because of a challenge. 99% of people who use hidden/screencut/lane cover/etc uses it because it helps them read

[rayword45]

Originally Posted by Charu

it would make some slow songs (like this 5 minute long easy rock songs) EASIER to play through.

I don't even play this game anymore and this line of thinking still pisses me the fuck off.

Yes, let's make it so in order to get the best ranking possible, you HAVE to play perfectly through boring easy bullshit to the sounds of bad emo music. For literally hundreds of hours if you make human mistakes and oftentimes get one good during the 5 minutes of Black Veil Between My Dick.

That's objectively BAD game design. Ever notice how people complain when games are too grindy? Except at least usually they're grindy because they're CHALLENGING and not because they want to bore the fuck out of you out of some misguided principle of "fairness" like yeah, these other no-lifers played through the 72 hours of level 5 10-minute crunkcore songs so YOU have to too.