TWG CLXXIV - Sounds Like You've got a Problem. - Game Thread

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Do you think trevor is still worth a pursui

maaaybe not today? he had ample opportunity to not lose a partner yesterday i would think

it's possible he's the busser ofc, just his reads lined up such that he could vote either of ben or raeko, and i dunno why he'd choose raeko if ben's town if not "for the cred"

[TWGma]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Hmmmm i can see why you'd do it

Xiz would sac the weakest town in his fake pile (one of the wolves) to progress himself into a deeper wolf status.

I'm touched that you think so highly of me.

[TWGma]

I don't know if I'll make it to EoD.. I'm sick as fuck, and tired as all hell.

With that said, thanks to inD's detective work re: Lar+Raeko, as well as an EXTREMELY sketch last second save-attempt, I feel comfortable voting MixMasterLar for today.

[roundbox]

got distracted with a visitor and delicious tacos
sorry for the delay folks

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

Xel's not here so I can't even anyway </3

I like Lar overall so I wouldn't vote him today

I started to ISO you WAB because I felt I hadn't paid you enough attention and I liked what I saw, I like the sorts of questions you are asking people and the things you're taking note of

roundbox seems less scary to me than before. I do see effort in his game play and I don't think I want to vote for him today. but, he hasn't screamed town to me yet

sunfan I'm seriously not sure on. I want to believe he is town and I still feel those vibes kinda but I don't have much else so maybe I could be feeling the wrong vibes

I have a hard time remembering Ben's posts from my reading and that scares me.

Tforce ????? I've ignored him too much I don't really have a read that freaks me out as well

Ind's head space seems scattered, he did a bunch of those re-read posts but never really made any pushes or connections from them... might be wrong here but it seemed like more of a show than an actual attempt at solving the game

so I guess my top choice today is Ind, followed by Tforce or Ben

i cycled back to this and not sure i have anything to observe further about it than roundbox did

bolded some hedge words that seem rather similar from read to read; notably sunfan moves down from "good vibes" level (i said she was seeing him as town before but that's mostly because sunfan was outside of her list of top lynch candidates, and some people have to be town)

def don't think it's as straightforward as "oh she cleared her partners" but yeah

ben and t-force are interesting from the perspective of "i've read everything, but don't remember anything these two guys said somehow", even after she's responded to posts from t-force including his hottest of takes

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by roundbox

got distracted with a visitor and delicious tacos
sorry for the delay folks

i hope you enjoyed your tacos

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by roundbox

ind is the one with the heaviest case against him. pretty bold considering ind wasn't the top of people's priority lists so this would a be a pretty bold lynch to pursue. this is a fair point.

...

as for everyone else, the case on ind was pretty specific to not sound like a bus, especially given his current status on peoples' "wanting to vote this phase" lists, of which he was relatively absent. as for the other reads, it's hard to really place anything because both t-force and ben don't have anything other than they're not "memorable"

and that's really about it. raeko defending lar back makes their connection deeper, and it's making me skeptical. ind might come off as more towny because of this, but everyone else doesn't seem to move all that too much.

to be fair people named sunfan and wineandbread wanted to vote me yesterday

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by XelNya

"oh we couldn't have had two wolves as lynch potentials..."

Didn't this shit happen sometime in the last four games?

WISH GREG WAS HERE TO CONFIRM IT FOR ME. JS.

we had one game where there was a lynch randed between a wolf and the serial killer

before that there was a turbo where i think the PR was up against a wolf both days

wolf/wolf wagons i don't remember but maybe i skipped that game

if it was the ootc game then lol

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

K well I'm working today and don't have time to argue with someone who hasn't caught up. You're basically spewing nonsense from your mouth-hole at this point.



Your reaction at start of day that said "fuck me I'm bad" (Or whatever words you used I'm in too much of a hurry to want to check) basically sealed the deal for me.

You didn't say "That's not right!" You didn't argue, you didn't get in there and do any serious work right away. Nope, just vaguely admitted to being caught and then only denied that's what the post meant when I asked about it.

Yeah no sorry bro you be a wolf.

Goes on to say that out of three possible lynch targets he leans me the most so good lip service here I guess.



This is padding.

It's been established in the thread that no set up remains where we do not have 3 wolves total.



From the man who said he didn't know what he was talking about because he voted Ben earlier in the post.



I'm sure you would.

a) Why would I call myself bad in public if I'm a wolf and a wolf dies? I am trying to express frustration at myself. You say I'm not doing 'serious work' afterwards sounds very similar to what you argued for sunfan and rb. I did sit in the thread and respond to a few comments before I went to bed though.
I don't see how you can think I'm a wolf just because I called myself bad.

b) I think you are misunderstanding my wagon analysis. With raeko dead already, there must be 2 wolves remaining based on maximum 4Ts in the setup. If I don't group you and rb together as wolves and I know that I am town, then logically, there is at least 1 wolf on the raeko wagon. This logic only falls apart if you and rb are somehow wolf buddies which I sincerely doubt.

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Oh wait real quick before I go



Sun did save IC both nights so you can congratulate me in post for calling that.

Just because he saved IC both nights doesn't mean he was hit both nights.

Originally Posted by TWGma

Candidate for Red Blaster of the Year award right here?



@Wine: I gave InD more of a clear because I don't really think that there's a wolf on Raeko's wagon. Could there be? Sure.
But why?

As much as we like to say the setup is solved, it's really only once the roleblocker is flipped that it becomes that much clearer. I can't see wolves basically taking their (potentially) useless power wolf and sacrificing her.

Okay, that's fair enough for inD.

Not sure what you meant by the red blaster thing, but refer to b) above if you misunderstood my post. If you think there are no wolves on the raeko wagon, you are saying rb/MML is a team, or you are misreading me. If you put aside your feelings for me, do you think rb/MML could be a team?

Given your vote on MML, do you think MML and I could possibly be on a team?

[inDheart]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Oh wait real quick before I go



Sun did save IC both nights so you can congratulate me in post for calling that.

i have no idea why this is some point of pride for you, it's the obvious save

like maybe okay if we pretend you weren't setup hunting in the thread or something and locked yourself in a world that a vigi had to have shot someone that it looked like only you were wolf reading

but that's a big ask

[reuben_tate]

I'm here.

[roundbox]

t4rce

hey you have more posts than I thought but that's cool

Originally Posted by TWGma

If no one else was going to make the above point, I was because of the kill.
However, that is a really dumb move to be made by me so early on. If I kill for memes, it's when I'm the last one left in a seemingly unwinnable game (see: Anime North 2015 when the reverse occurred between myself and FG).

If there's anything to be read into who was wolving, it has to be someone who would know about said rivalry/meme and be able to twist it.
Ergo: roundbox, the sun fan, maybe mellon, maybe blind.

for one I am super glad that tforce hasn't grasped onto this point to defend himself and was only really around to defend this stance on d1. he didn't get overly defensive or accusatory of the people he mentioned, so that's cool and very tinily towny looking

Originally Posted by TWGma

Reading the thread. Just finished page 30.

HOT READS INC.:
Wolf team is sunfan, star-crossed, and inD.

I forget if he explains this or not

Originally Posted by TWGma

Not to mention, being the 3 loudest voices is a pretty good tactic in that they essentially can drown out other town players who are trying to catch up and respond. Idk, it's a trick I've seen used in lTWG a lot and it works out more often than not.


Either way, like I said, hot take.

yeah it's still as ridiculous as it was
I think the only scummy thing to come out of this is the fact that he drove it all the way to the next day

Originally Posted by TWGma

... YOU PLAY HERE MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE, AND POTENTIALLY HAVE THE AMOUNT OF GAMES PLAYED HERE OF THE ENTIRE ROSTER COMBINED

HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS IS COMMON HERE


unless I'm wrong, but I highly doubt that

the way he's posting about this slip take sounds like t-force gettin' flustered when people aren't seeing his opinion

Originally Posted by TWGma

Barring anything crazy, I'm voting within my hot take today, as one of their flips will hopefully solve that trio for me.

yeah this looks like poop

Originally Posted by TWGma

PS. Thanks for killing star, wolves. That actually clears up a lot for me.

does this go anywhere?

Originally Posted by TWGma

If I have to make a quick list on where I am, it would look probably something like this..

TOWN:
Gradiant
sunfan
inD
Lar
T-Force

NULL:
Wine
roundbox
Raeko

WOLFY:
Ben

Either way, the 3 R's scare me more than Reading, Writing, and 'rithmetic so seeing something out of them would be cool.

they're both town now? :thinking:

Originally Posted by TWGma

With all due respect, I think I'm done with hot takes for a while, haha

o
maybe him not netting a lynch from his hot take makes him towny, I would expect him to commit or at least try to twist things to make it sound logical if scum!tforce

Originally Posted by TWGma

Yeah. Sorry sunfan.

Basically Ben has a lovely habit of starting games off strong before dissolving into nothingness in terms of his posting and content. Usually included are long stretches of no appearances.

he's been pretty hard on ben, how hard does he drive this point? let's see the panel for a response...

Originally Posted by TWGma

Where the hell is Ben...
Where the hell is Raeko...

call out of ben+1
call out of raeko+1

Originally Posted by TWGma

Swear to god if this is another AN'16-esque game where the wolves are the 3 silent ones while town implodes...

he's been skeptical of this before and it feels pretty towny to me; ptsd flashbacks

Originally Posted by TWGma

Dunno if you ever caught up, but to answer: Yes. Ish.
After star's death, I thought sunfan and inD were masons together.

ok this is cleared up now

Originally Posted by TWGma

Don't. He does it as wolf too.

call out of ben+2

Originally Posted by TWGma

All I know is I'm comfortable lynching within the 3 R's today and I feel at least one will be a hit.

call out of ben+3
call out raeko +2
call out of me +2 (he voted me earlier

Originally Posted by TWGma

Yeah, I could be down for mellon.

Xel, you're lurking, got anything in your limited time?

call out of raeko +3
this vote is 7 minutes from EOD
raeko hadn't voted at this point so she's gonna pres vote, tforce voting here just takes her out of the original kitb
does scum!tforce vote her like this? not sure. he's voting with his two newly acquired town reads in sunfan and indheart, but the only thing is that he was focused on ben a little more than raeko, but since I tracked it out they're a bit more comparable than him tunneling on ben just to swap to raeko. this doesn't make sense if he's partners with raeko, as he could have put ben to three votes at that time.
that, and he has the same reaction I had mostly when lar tried to vote ben at the end there, lmao

Originally Posted by TWGma

Couldn't read her wolf game?
Or purposely didn't because partners?

:thonking:
sample size too small
sorry I couldn't read her properly, she subverted my expectations

Originally Posted by TWGma

I mean, you're not wrong that you 3 are probably our final lynches, but angry much? Ease it on the salt.

another scary thing. hmm

THE VERDICT:

+vote on raeko looks clean, breaking the 3-way kitb with the doctor+ben
+had no problem flipping his reads off of hot take status and moving forward
+mindmeld on lar's last second hot vote
+doesn't press the fg thing

+/- pressure on ben, votes raeko. raeko flips roleblocker soooOOOOO

-lynch order belief


another pros outweighing cons
townforce

[inDheart]

ben lemme know whatcha got

[Charu]

MixMasterLar
X

roundbox
X

---

MixMasterLar --> roundbox (POST)
T-Force --> MixMasterLar (POST)

---

Players who have UNVOTED

[NONE]

---

Players who haven't voted Day 3

roundbox
Xelnya
inDheart
reuben_tate
Wineandbread

---

mellonxcollie
X.X.X.X

reuben_tate
X.X.X.X

the sun fan
X

---

Wineandbread --> the sun fan (POST)
MixMasterLar --> roundbox (POST)
Xelnya --> reuben_tate (POST)
the sun fan --> MixMasterLar (POST)
MixMasterLar --> the sun fan (POST)
the sun fan --> roundbox (POST)
reuben_tate --> the sun fan (POST)
T-Force --> roundbox (POST)
inDheart --> mellonxcollie (POST)
Wineandbread --> UNVOTE (POST)
roundbox --> reuben_tate (POST)
the sun fan --> mellonxcollie (POST)
T-Force --> mellonxcollie (POST)
mellonxcollie --> reuben_tate (POST)
reuben_tate --> UNVOTE (POST)
reuben_tate --> mellonxcollie (POST)
Wineandbread --> reuben_tate (POST)

---

Players who have UNVOTED

[NONE]

---

Players who haven't voted Day 2

[EVERYONE VOTED]

---

blindreper1179
X.X.X.X.X

Wineandbread
X

T-Force
X

---

inDheart --> T-Force (POST)
blindreper1179 --> Wineandbread (POST)
the sun fan --> blindreper1179 (POST)
the sun fan --> mellonxcollie (POST)
Gradiant --> blindreper1179 (POST)
the sun fan --> mellonxcollie (POST)
star-crossed --> inDheart (POST)
the sun fan --> inDheart (POST)
star-crossed --> roundbox (POST)
star-crossed --> inDheart (POST)
MixMasterLar --> blindreper1179 (POST)
inDheart --> rueben_tate (POST)
Wineandbread --> rueben_tate (POST)
roundbox --> blindreper1179 (POST)
the sun fan --> blindreper1179 (POST)
star-crossed --> rueben_tate (POST)
Wineandbread --> blindreper1179 (POST)
star-crossed --> UNVOTE (POST)
inDheart --> T-Force (POST)

---

Players who have UNVOTED

star-crossed

---

Players who haven't voted Day 1

mellonxcollie
T-Force
reuben_tate

---

Wayward Vagabond
X.X

Wineandbread
X.X

DarkManticoreX2
X

Funnygurl555
X

T-Force
X

blindreper1179
X

---

inDheart --> Gradiant (POST)
Gradiant --> reuben_tate (POST)
Wayward Vagabond --> blindreper1179 (POST)
blindreper1179 --> Wayward Vagabond (POST)
blindreper1179 --> UNVOTE (POST)
Wayward Vagabond --> the sun fan (POST)
Funnygurl555 --> T-Force (POST)
inDheart --> Funnygurl555 (POST
the sun fan --> T-Force (POST)
blindreper1179 --> inDheart (POST)
Wayward Vagabond --> inDheart (POST)
Gradiant --> MixMasterLar (POST)
Wineandbread --> T-Force (POST)
Wayward Vagabond --> DarkManticoreX2 (POST)
the sun fan --> Wineandbread (POST)
Funnygurl555 --> T-Force (POST)
blindreper1179 --> Wayward Vagabond (POST)
inDheart --> Wayward Vagabond (POST)
Wineandbread --> UNVOTE (POST)
Funnygurl555 --> Wineandbread (POST)
MixMasterLar --> Funnygurl555 (POST)
Wineandbread --> Wayward Vagabond (POST)
Gradiant --> DarkManticoreX2 (POST)
Wayward Vagabond --> UNVOTE (POST)
inDheart --> T-Force (POST)
roundbox --> blindreper1179 (POST)

---

Players who have UNVOTED

Wayward Vagabond

---

Players who haven't voted Day 0

mellonxcollie
T-Force
reuben_tate
DarkManticoreX2

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

I'm here.

Make a case for a lynch and be thorough go

[reuben_tate]

Originally Posted by inDheart

ben lemme know whatcha got

Not much, I'm still catching up on the thread.

I'm still a little confused about what happened during the end of last phase. I've had MML pegged as town for most of this game; even though there was disagreement regarding the whole vigi-situation, I felt like we had a lot of mind-melding moments. So his vote right towards the EOD last phase really caught me off guard because I thought I was in his town circle as well at the moment.

Digging around, MML's last significant post before the EOD vote was this:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

Don't vote Raeko that's a bad gamble although I can promise you she has not read my posts (she would say something I feel) and that does look bad.

I personally wouldn't vote Ben either

Of course, I'm guessing that MML wasn't exactly anticipating that EOD would consist of a wagon become raeko so I wouldn't find his vote on me during EOD last phase to be a contradiction of what he said here. I personally thought that he would unvote...I didn't anticipate that the difference in our perceived scuminess (as seen by MML) would be significant enough for him to push a vote on me.

Also, I don't know if this means anything...but his vote on me was in all caps? I'm not sure what that's about.

I was kinda hoping that we'd have some other possible lynch candidates but it seems that isn't materializing.

I was looking at roundbox last phase, so I might try to look at him some more. Also, I've been really lazy about Tforce...I feel like I've been kinda nodding my head along with everything that's said so far but haven't taken the time to iso any of his posts or give them any kind of scrutiny.

[reuben_tate]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Make a case for a lynch and be thorough go

Saw this post after I made my previous one. Oops.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

Saw this post after I made my previous one. Oops.

DO IT NOW THEN

[roundbox]

benguin

I keep seeing xel's sig with your picture in it and everything and it makes me think xel is you

ben starts off the game shitposting for quite a bit. NAI, but a mention for those of you who want to comb his posts too!

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

I just want to clarify that the first post by roundbox here is supposed to be a joke? Otherwise...I'm genuinely confused.

he didn't like me wanting to squelch d0 setup discussion ;_;

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

Well, yes, it's a fact...but a fact can be said jokingly in a certain context.

If it's not a joke...then why would he discuss the setup only to encourage others to not discuss setup. Doing that seems only like "a waste of time"

this some weak pushing if I've seen one

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

I'd like to hear from roundbox himself.

I probably should have included the context in which he stated that fact, i.e., he was stating it in response to sunfan saying it's time to start actually playing the game or whatever.

I'm assuming he responded to sunfan jokingly when he said that, but I wasn't 100% confident that that was supposed to be a joke.

he's doing it agaaaain

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

Sorry, I didn't mean to discredit your interpretation of roundbox's words. It's just that your response was said as if you were speaking on roundbox's behalf (as opposed to sharing your interpretation). Dunno if that makes sense.

this is an ok response to ind covering me

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

I did feel it was a bit that MML's prompting of the IC was a bit early (considering it hasn't been that long since we transitioned out of the shit-posting phase of D0). I felt the same way about Blind; however, when I first saw MML's post, I somewhat felt the same way (in a "nodding one's head and going uh-huh" kinda way) but then felt differently after Gradiant explained how early we were in the game at the time. Kinda curious if blind is still of the same opinion.

he's a little wish-washy about mml here and posed blind as a potential scum

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

At this point, it's not so much his post asking others not to discuss speculation that's bothering me...what bothers me is why he posted the fact in the first place (now knowing that it wasn't posted in a joking way).

AGAIN

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

lots of speculation

and then we have lots of theorizing and posing of ideas about FG's death and gradiant's non-death. maybe the flip on raeko here makes my idea that one between lar/ben was scum? they were the two primarily doing the big speculatory posts and I wasn't a huge fan of it. I felt like only one wolf would openly theater this speculation, and both of them doing this would be ??? tier. the only reason I came off of lar being the scummier of the two is because he was really driving the narrative and taking credit for the whole IC thing and whatnot.

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

I disagree that it gets us "nowhere". It's not like the night kills are determined by wolf's rolling some dice, there is usually motivation behind the actions of the wolves. Usually this leaves us with finitely many options, some much more plausible than others. The reason I think it is helpful is because when I make a read, I want to make sure it holds some level of consistency with plausible set of wolf night actions.

As for "being a stretch", I only meant that for WnB. I do feel strongly that MML is likely town because of it and I feel strongly that the analysis is inconclusive for both myself and star-cross.

I can't tell if he's wolfreading me for this. has ben posted any reads?

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

To respond to the part about Gradiant, I know I was a bit long-winded, but I was essentially trying to say why I thought MML was likely town. As I mentioned, a little while ago, I meant to say that this doesn't necessarily clear myself; sorry for the confusion.

As for who I would have voted for on D0, I would have voted for wv since I had a slight scum lean on wv and a slight town lean on wnb. As for who I would vote now, votecounts aside, I would vote for sunfan but I still need to read where he said he's put me out of his town circle. Given the votecounts though, out of self-preservation, I'm obviously going to vote between inDheart and blind; I'm leaning more towards blind atm.

I mean I guess this counts a little bit but it's not that much.

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

notes

the notes give some nice transparency, kinda? there are some things in here that he points out but it doesn't seem like some of them go anywhere like some of the quotes on me are just quotes

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

Regarding the IC, wolves are probably going to kill the IC at some point. I feel like a good time to kill the IC would be either when the IC suspects one of the wolves or when wolves simply don't have any good blue leans. In the former case, wolves could try to play it was the latter case. But yeah, both cases should be considered.

???

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

Also, it's just personally annoying to hear about how the nightkills aren't worth talking about <_> I feel like I've heard plenty from roundbox. I can understand how speculation isn't very helpful on D0, but I feel like we have a bit more information to work with now which can help us greatly narrow down the likely possibilities. (I feel like I'm going to get a lot of shit for this paragraph...but whatever).

where's the read on me
and yes you're getting shit for this paragraph again

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

I'd say it's less MML being intent on solving the setup/nightkills/etc as it is moreso him responding to those that appear to prevent us from solving the setup/nightkills/etc.

I missed this, how am I preventing discussion? I haven't done anything to obfuscate information about the night kills, I've just made declarations that speculation is getting us nowhere
please tell me where speculation has got us

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

A quickie reads list:

Town:
Xelnya
MixMasterLar

Leaning Town:
Wineandbread
T-Force

Null:
mellonxcollie

Leaning Wolf:
roundbox
inDheart

Wolf:
the sun fan

what made him lean tforce town? why is ind leaning wolf? (might be star's post, but ???) the read on me is that I'm reading wolf? why did it take so long to make a reads list?

Originally Posted by reuben_tate

Mellon

aaaaaand self pres vote
lucky for him, it got a roleblocking wolf. whoa. this self pres is one of the only towny things I've gleaned here, I feel.[/quote]

+rocked the hard self pres last phase (first vote!), but this isn't a guaranteed town move. ben and raeko both being wolves would be interesting though with the way the votes were split. not an impossibility.

+/- posted some notes, but notes had some lack of reads/positions

-lots of pushes on me, no votes or progression on my past my calling out of people speculating
-no votes for two phases
-open theorycrafting about why IC lived, etc., etc.

ben doesn't look very good; last phase's lynch is the only thing keeping him afloat imo
yeah it's a little selfish to focus mostly on the reads he made on me and their lack of progression, but it exists for other players too like ind.

[roundbox]

um hello is this thing on? I feel like I'm cold and alone