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Old 07-26-2018, 07:11 PM   #1
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Default Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

Introduction

Vertex BETA vrofl is classified as a Lv. 255, the hardest file in the game by far. However, when looking at the statistics, something looked odd. It seemed as if its actual rating should be much lower.

Now, I do understand why the 255 figure is there: That shit's insane! I can't imagine any human actually AAA-ing this ever (hopefully more experienced players will agree). But the thing is, if we plug the MAGIC AAA Equivalency formula into some of its top scores, things go quite wrong.

Of course, before I can even talk about plugging in the MAGIC AAA Equivalency formula, we need to make something clear:

This is all purely hypothetical.

Simply put, vrofl is a way different beast than what the formula was made for. So any final result should be taken with a whole bottle of salt. Without further ado, let's dive right in!

The MAGIC AAA Equivalency formula

AAA Equivalency is meant as a way of measuring the skill of a given player. The process is simple enough. You play a level of difficulty D, you get a number R of raw goods, and your final AAA equivalency, E, is given by

,

where 𝛿 is a quartic polynomial in D and α, β, λ are constants. Your top 15 equivalencies are then added with given weights to give your Skill Rating. Easy enough, right?

However, let's say you know your Skill Rating already. If you are able to get a number R of raw goods in a song, you can use it to calculate the difficulty of the song. In theory.

In reality, when playing a song too high above my Skill Rating, the AAA Equivalency I get is always underestimated. And when I play a song too below it, I usually AAA it easily, capping the AAA Equivalency at the difficulty of the song.

So, if we want to get anything useful out of this, we need to make some unrealistic assumptions. The ones we'll use are the following:

  • The AAA Equivalency formula is perfect.
  • Players' Skill Rating when their top score at vrofl was achieved is the same as its current value.
  • vrofl can be realistically rated.

We can now actually get to work. We'll first realize that getting D explicitly via our formula is impossible. Those exponential functions and the quartic polynomial just make it too hard. So instead, we'll settle for something else.

We'll first take the Raw Goods for the best scores on the song. We'll then substitute values of D from 1 to 1000 (it's quite reasonable to assume this isn't a Lv. 1000+) to see which gives the closest value to the actual Skill Rating of the person who got that score. Rinse and repeat.

Results

After plugging in the Top 25 scores (excluding users that had been closed their accounts because that's sketchy), we get a difficulty level anywhere between 169 and 185. Definitely not 255.

If you want to see the results yourself or try something similar, here's the link to my Excel file: https://mega.nz/#!nslhgYza!QXEhuW6eS...Els4iknwfLiNbo. I used macros to implement the Best Fit Difficulty function, I won't hijack your computer or anything.

Note: Plugging in the stats to any other level will give analogous results. Although, levels with more than, say, 10 AAAs will probably not work very well.

So yeah, this was my experiment. I had fun. You can comment down below.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

huh
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

I guess. I mean Vrofl cannot really be rated right. Its simply impossible. Try it on .5 rate, it still cannot be done haha. The wall of death is barely passable, the rest is just insane.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

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[*]The AAA Equivalency formula is perfect.
It's not.

Also, if I remember correctly vROFL isn't ranked (similar to the 0-rated files) so the number doesn't actually matter. The rating used to be 999.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

Tfw this guy doesn't have vrofl and doesn't realize there's basically an unpassable section, let's not even talk about aaa able
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

I gave vrofl a rating of 255 in reference to that value being a hard limit in 8-bit computing (and as such being the max value for a number of things in a lot of video games, pac man kill screen probably being the most famous). With the introduction of files rated 0, it seemed to be a good fit completing the 0-255 8-bit byte range.

The AAA equivalency formula is quite flawed (and I won't bother rehashing my opinions on how to fix it again since I don't believe much work is being done on that front atm) but without any data on other charts even remotely approaching the difficulty of vrofl, it's pointless to try and discern what its true rating should be (though if you had fun sure ok go nuts all the power to u).

In addition, nearly all the top scores on vrofl are nowhere near optimized. Most players give it a couple runs and call it quits indefinitely. When that could possibly result in cutting off several hundreds of raw goods from their scores, it becomes even more pointless to find its true rating since accurate scoring data is quite influential in determining where a file's difficulty lies.

edit: it would appear this is not my laptop I'm posting from and as such not my account oops sorry magdaddio
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

I AAA'd it before its like a 78 at best

shit thread
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

it's a literal joke chart made for april fools, it wasn't intended to be playable let alone aaa'able lmfao, doesnt the wall peak at 78nps or somewhere around that area? i hate to call things impossible, but a human mind can only do so much.
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

that was a nice experiment though, glad you had fun with it
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

I mean, ive passed the wall...once. lol

And lol KOM its because its pretty obviously an alt.

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Old 07-27-2018, 12:05 AM   #11
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

For your information, the equation is quite solvable, and has a real solution at ~169.796, based on the current top score.

So yeah, I'd agree with the conclusion that it's unlikely vrofl's true rating would be 255.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

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Originally Posted by komochii View Post
Tfw this guy doesn't have vrofl and doesn't realize there's basically an unpassable section, let's not even talk about aaa able
Yeah I've seen the wall, but there are somehow 5 FCs of this so I wouldn't call it unpassable.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

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Originally Posted by Soundwave- View Post
For your information, the equation is quite solvable, and has a real solution at ~169.796, based on the current top score.

So yeah, I'd agree with the conclusion that it's unlikely vrofl's true rating would be 255.
Solvable through numerical methods or through exact methods? I'm curious about the latter.
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All songs up to Level 27 AAA'd.

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Old 07-27-2018, 11:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

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Yeah I've seen the wall, but there are somehow 5 FCs of this so I wouldn't call it unpassable.
lol IIRC(at least back years ago) the only way to pass the wall was to quad hold it. Im pretty sure anyone who fcd either used Double setup or quad held it and got lucky haha. its too fast to vibrate unless you are literally a god.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

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Solvable through numerical methods or through exact methods? I'm curious about the latter.
I used a numerical method (the solutions are irrational), but I would have to believe that it has solutions expressible analytically as algebraic numbers in minimal form.
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

Back when charts were rated 1-99, vrofl was rated 999, which is obviously an even greater exaggeration than 255 on a 1-120 system. But it's only an exaggeration because of how the system scales, and scaling past 120 is essentially meaningless when files of that nature clash with the intended player meta of FFR.

As I understand it, a 120 file should be just barely DDGable for the absolute top players, and vrofl is simply not DDGable by a human. Since its difficulty is so high that it doesn't really test one's ability to approach an AAA, even rating it correctly distorts the "purpose" of the AAA equivalency. Since it's structurally outside FFR's intended purpose, the 255 (and the prior 999) feel appropriate to me.

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Old 07-27-2018, 03:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

Yo it's a joke cause it's just 255, even thinking to apply the standard scale to it is pointless because it's literally impossible and it doesn't scale
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:33 PM   #18
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

At least bring up objective argument if you're gonna say it's impossible to rate :/ URL went trough the trouble of figuring stuff out and wording some hypothesis. If they're wrong, mention why, otherwise there's not much value to any argument

Why do you guys think the current difficulties cant be extrapolated to vRofl ? Yes, the lack of comparable files is problematic, but how does that make it impossible.. can extrapolation not work ? We have a scale from 0 to 120, which is a fairly decent amount of data to analyse the shape of the difficulty growth.
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Old 07-27-2018, 05:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

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At least bring up objective argument if you're gonna say it's impossible to rate :/ URL went trough the trouble of figuring stuff out and wording some hypothesis. If they're wrong, mention why, otherwise there's not much value to any argument

Why do you guys think the current difficulties cant be extrapolated to vRofl ? Yes, the lack of comparable files is problematic, but how does that make it impossible.. can extrapolation not work ? We have a scale from 0 to 120, which is a fairly decent amount of data to analyse the shape of the difficulty growth.
I only say its "impossible" to rate because the song literally can BARELY be fcd by human. Why would we put a AAA equivelancy on a song that can barely be fcd? It makes no sense.
Like, theres literally so many parts where "playing it right" and not mashing is near impossible. Sure, it can be done, but BARELY.

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Old 07-27-2018, 05:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: Vertex BETA vrofl Difficulty Level (hypothetical)

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Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx View Post
At least bring up objective argument if you're gonna say it's impossible to rate :/ URL went trough the trouble of figuring stuff out and wording some hypothesis. If they're wrong, mention why, otherwise there's not much value to any argument

Why do you guys think the current difficulties cant be extrapolated to vRofl ? Yes, the lack of comparable files is problematic, but how does that make it impossible.. can extrapolation not work ? We have a scale from 0 to 120, which is a fairly decent amount of data to analyse the shape of the difficulty growth.
I think the main argument is that the wall is almost humanly impossible. And it wouldn't make sense to assign a difficulty number (at least, not a finite one) to an impossible file.
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  • Highest AAA: Men & Machines [Redemption] [73]
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  • Highest SDG: Piano Etude (Demon Fire) [Heavy] [78]
  • Highest CLEAN FC: Rave 1 [84]
  • Highest MASHED FC: grind4 [95]

All songs up to Level 27 AAA'd.

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