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Old 10-19-2006, 04:04 PM   #1
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Default School systems in America.

So my 3rd period IB Chemistry teacher has me thinking about schools. Since as far as I can remember, all schooling has been is memorize a bunch of information, and then show the teacher that I remembered it every week or so. Within a year or so after the class is finished, I can hardly remember anything from the class. Once in a while, he goes on about how we aren't nearly as educated as we could be, and it's not even our own faults. So many kids that got all A's and B's in high school end up dropping out of college because their teacher have lowered standards dramatically, without them knowing it. The USA loses pretty much every international intelegence competition. Thoughts?
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Old 10-19-2006, 04:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: School systems in America.

america is runned by dubya. america voted for dubya.

any other questions.
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you take words that you want to know more about and you type them in and OH SHIT YOU GET INFORMATION
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Old 10-19-2006, 04:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: School systems in America.

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Originally Posted by duhh_ View Post
america is runned by dubya. america voted for dubya.

any other questions.
The topic I'm bringing up has been going on for years... It has little to do with Bush as president..
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: School systems in America.

Ever talked to people in other countries to see what their education's like?
I've never lived in these places, but I've heard stories of 6 year old japanese kids needing to schedule time to play with their friends, or else they won't have time.
My friend in India, when she was 3 or 4, some ridiculously young age, remembers being tested to see if she was smart enough for to be put into a prestigious school.
A student who I knew who went on exchange in highschool to France who didn't like it at all, because all school was for her was classes and studying. There were no extra-curricular activities.

I'm upset also that the school system doesn't seem to do as good a job as it should be doing in North America (I'm canadian), for both the slower and faster learners. But, I'm also very grateful that I wasn't brought up in a rigid, grades-are-everything society. I'm also glad my parents raised me so that I didn't have to be the best, so that I'd be able to get the 'best' career, or one of the top few ones.

Why do you think teachers have lowered standards? Laziness on the part of the teacher? Because parents get pissed at schools when their kids do poorly? Or is it by-product of North American culture?

I've been told, a few years back now I realize, that people with a North American education are thought of very highly by employers across the globe in terms of being able to adapt and work with people.
(and of course, we don't treat other country's education systems with respect. You're an MD? Oh, you got your degree in India? I'm sorry, we don't take degrees from your country; here, you can be the janitor!.)
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: School systems in America.

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Originally Posted by Cavernio View Post
Why do you think teachers have lowered standards? Laziness on the part of the teacher? Because parents get pissed at schools when their kids do poorly? Or is it by-product of North American culture?

I've been told, a few years back now I realize, that people with a North American education are thought of very highly by employers across the globe in terms of being able to adapt and work with people.
(and of course, we don't treat other country's education systems with respect. You're an MD? Oh, you got your degree in India? I'm sorry, we don't take degrees from your country; here, you can be the janitor!.)
Well, the way I see it, is that in the 50's when there was an uprising of schools, memorizing was key. The reason for this was that there was no internet, you had to go to the library and look everything up. Now that we have access to endless information, we should focus more on how to use it rather than just obtaining it and spitting it out at the teacher. And also yes, if momma's little angel is making a D in math she's going to instantly blame the standards for being too high. We have a great schooling system....... For the 50's when everyone went to work at factories.

As for MDs working as janitors, there must be reasoning. If they can make more money here for their family as a janitor then a doctor, so be it. I've been treated amongst the years by many doctors that aren't born in America.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: School systems in America.

One of the really big issues is that the system hasn't significantly changed in decades. The methods of teaching haven't changed, but the content keeps getting updated because students have to learn more and more. What the system needs is an update of its methods, which is impossible because it's so decentralized.

Now, one of the benefits of our system in general is that kids get a decent amount of choice. In other countries (China is a great example), a student picks an academic path at the beginning of high school which essentially dictates a career path. Here, students have much longer to choose.

The problem with this is that while you're deciding, schools are trying to teach you everything you need for all those career paths. And doing it horribly because reform costs money.



Edit: You know what would be nice? If education was a market. There's plenty of demand for it, which would produce a lot of competition, and the quality of the product would skyrocket as a result.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: School systems in America.

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Originally Posted by T0rajir0u View Post
In other countries (China is a great example), a student picks an academic path at the beginning of high school which essentially dictates a career path.
In my county, they are going to begin to force freshman to choose some what of a major in their 9th grade year. Rediculous IMHO. I'm a sophmore and I still have no idea where I'm going.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: School systems in America.

Asian countries 0wn our asses. End of story.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: School systems in America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0rajir0u View Post
Edit: You know what would be nice? If education was a market. There's plenty of demand for it, which would produce a lot of competition, and the quality of the product would skyrocket as a result.
But then we're stuck where we started. The rich get educated. The poor don't. The reason why the U.S. ever became so powerful was because everyone had an equal chance at success.

I agree, we do need an update, but funding for schools is so small as it is that we can hardly keep up with the outdated system we have.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: School systems in America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duhh_ View Post
america is runned by dubya. america voted for dubya.

any other questions.
No, we didn't.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html

Bush:
50,456,002 (47.87%)

Gore:
50,999,897 (48.38%)

The ELECTORAL COLLEGE voted him in. Gore won the election.

PS I love our voting system, can't you tell? Looks like the people's vote means a whole lot now.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: School systems in America.

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Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
No, we didn't.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html

Bush:
50,456,002 (47.87%)

Gore:
50,999,897 (48.38%)

The ELECTORAL COLLEGE voted him in. Gore won the election.

PS I love our voting system, can't you tell? Looks like the people's vote means a whole lot now.
Our was created as a representative government in a time before education was a click or walk to the library away. Our government was created so that the smart people could make decisions for the stupid people if necessary.

Maybe our current education system doesn't fit with our government system. And maybe, just maybe, T0rajir0u might just maybe be right. However we would loose any chance of competition with other nations. It might just be what would make our society finally click again. Who knows though.

Bush has done more good for the education system than he has harmed it. Just because he hasn't revolutionized it doesn't mean he can be blamed for our society's problems.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: School systems in America.

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Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
Looks like the people's vote means a whole lot now.
The people's vote never counted for much. I don't trust the people to make important decisions. The Framers didn't either. That's why the United States is a republic, not a democracy.

The problem with democracy is that it relies on an educated, informed voting populace, which we do not have because voting requirements are too slack.

A proposal no one in power can afford to take seriously:

Require that every citizen take a citizenship test before gaining the right to vote.

It's an absurd idea, and no serious politician could possibly endorse it because it would disenfranchise some particular segment of society. There would be accusations of political motives, and so forth, but the fact remains that this would weed out a lot of people who have no idea about anything and shouldn't have any say in the government.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:54 PM   #13
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Default Re: School systems in America.

Many people don't really know why they are voting for who they are. Case in point, the percentage of people now that are all for bush, as opposed to the percent that voted for him.
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Last edited by Squeek; 10-19-2006 at 11:36 PM.. Reason: CASE IN POINT NOT CASE AND POINT.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: School systems in America.

Bush is also a very bipolar man.

But once again we're off topic.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: School systems in America.

I'm well aware of the downsides of the voting process and the means of reform, but he specifically said the majority of people in America voted for George W. Bush, which is not true. In the year 2000, Al Gore was the man voted into office by the people of the United States.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:14 AM   #16
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Default Re: School systems in America.

By a small percent. However, the difference is great in those that voted for him as opposed to those who currently favour him. Say 48.9 percent voted for him, One in Ten* americans hate him.


*Probably true. I used this once to bs an american gov't essay.


Point be made, however, the majority is against bush, yet 48 percent voted for him.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:53 PM   #17
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Default Re: School systems in America.

Yes the system is horribly flawed and isn't going to change. It's a very practical system. This obviously has nothing to do with it being good, but it certainly is practical.

You're right, rote memorization is fairly pointless. Anyone, and I know from experience, can obtain wonderful grades without using an ounce of their brains. You're not really learning anything. For practical purposes, they don't care about who is smart past a certain grade, who is the most creative ect, and they certainly don't give a **** about how much you're learning.

Education is NOT, at the heart of it, about learning and teaching the population.


It's one giant integrated system. Look at it this way, the universities want 2 things. They want the people with good grades because they know the people with perfect GPA's are going to be the people that make them money. And they also want to get rid of the people with low marks, because they arn't going to make them money, they're going to lower their rank ect. They also need to get rid of people for selective programs.

The universities don't particularily care about how they do this as long as it gets done, and the current system does exactly that.


Why do you think they use the SAT? It's practical. They don't give a **** about how much you know, they want to design a test that is going to eliminate a lot of people and only take the ones that are going to make them money.

It's only going to get worse. It's not that the standards are necessarily lowered in highschool (ok this is very school specific. The standards are different in most schools and even between professors).

What happens is now that you're in university, guess what happens to the student body? They're all high achievers! And now they need another method of eliminating people. You're going to sit college exams that are like an hour long and full of about 40 ambiguous multiple choice that determine nearly your whole mark for the class. I think i've already made it clear about why they do this. Practicality. They want most people to fail so they can get rid of them from the program. They also need to test a massive amount of people and don't give a **** about you other than your test scores and volunteer work.



I suppose for the sake of saying something good about the system, it isn't the worst education system on the planet. A lot of asian countries have it pretty bad. There is quite a bit of flexibility, and even though grades and becoming more and more and more important, they are still not as important as in some places.


So they all leave and come here and completely mop up our system ;o
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Old 10-20-2006, 02:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: School systems in America.

Reason the system sucks is because we don't apply what we learn. Like the OP said,the teacher will have him memorize info that he'll forget in like a year. Why is this? He has no need to apply it in life. I think students should only be taught things they can apply to life, because that's the only way IMO anything you learn can have use.
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Old 10-20-2006, 03:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: School systems in America.

My school system rocks and most of my teachers rock, and I don't have anything to complain about. If think you want to learn badly enough, you'd be able to overcome most of the obstacles everyone is talking about.

Quote:
(and of course, we don't treat other country's education systems with respect. You're an MD? Oh, you got your degree in India? I'm sorry, we don't take degrees from your country; here, you can be the janitor!.)
My dad got a job in America in the early 90's from China because he was a software designer or something... and that's how I ended up here. I'm sure this happens, but not all the time.
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Old 10-21-2006, 12:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: School systems in America.

People spout out how American students don't perform as well as students from other countries.

That is a MYTH. Yes, on average, it is true, but that's because the VAST majority of the rest of the modern world weeds out the lower ends of their classes year by year. The top 10% of American students outperform the top 10% of any other country, or at least are on equal footing.

Why do you think that the most intelligent people from other countries seek a college education at an American university?
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