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#22 |
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Old-School Player
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Anticrombie0909, you've managed to make me smile today. Lately, that's been a rarity. I take back any feelings of ill will between us. (I've REALLY been under a lot of stress in the real world, as you might gather from my web page.)
I like where this is going, since it raises interesting points when you think about it. In a way, it's like the argument over eating meat or being a vegan. Is it immoral to take an animals life? (Work with me here, I said "like"). Also, there are many Middle-Eastern religions that account for suicide. Japan, of course, has seppuku, for those who wish to die with honor. Many others allow for self-starvation as a suicide method, the reasoning being if you have enough will power to die that way, then it must be important to you. These all apply to non-medical situations, by the way. Also, if someone really needs help and fails a suicide attempt, is it really a good idea to punish them with jail-time? I myself think that would make the depression worse. Prisons aren't exactly the safest places, and they'd probably find another way to try while confined. ... where was I? Oh yes, trying to sum up this latest string of musings. It all boils down to if you believe you know what's morally "right" and "wrong", and how you know it to be so, be it personal belief, religion, or whatnot. Then, ask why you can take your beliefs and apply them to others lifes and habits. Morals are funny. There's no compass, more like a Magic 8-Ball that can end up any which way depending how the person goes. Each person goes down a different path, and we all end up with different sets. (That had to be the worst metaphor ever.) |
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#23 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1
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Suicide is most definetly not ethical. There are two types of reasonings when it comes to ethics, there's rule based ethical reasoning and consequence based ethical reasoning.
Rule based ethical reasoning says that you should not do something if it's against a set of rules, laws, etc. Consequence based ethical reasoning says that you should not do something because of the outcome or reaction to what you do. Consequently either way, suicide is not ethical NOR reasonable, suicide is morally wrong, a sin, assisted suicides are illegal, therefore suicide is disobeying three different sets of laws, or rules. Also the outcome of a suicide is obviously negative for the entire family and friends that have to deal with the loss and if the person who commited suicide was not 100 percent positive about it, then it is also a negative outcome for them. |
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#24 |
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Super Scooter Happy
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I don't necessarily agree with the act itself but as far as I'm concerned it's the person's right to choose.
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I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds. |
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#25 | ||
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FFR Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: awsome
Posts: 2,946
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There's also a hint of utilitarianism here, which I personally disagree with because it restricts moral reasoning to one particular scope. This is the way morality works for a social creature such as a human: What is most moral is what best preserves the survival of one's social group. How you choose to define your social group - whether as your nation, your race, or all of humanity; whatever - is up to you. This is responsible for most of the world conflict that has ever occurred ever. In this sense, consider the very restricted case of old or sick people requesting euthanasia so as to end their lives peacefully and quietly. Since they're about to die anyway, the family does not necessarily suffer more than they would have if the death was natural; they also get the consolation of knowing that the death was painless. Since old or sick people tend not to reproduce, especially if the sickness is terminal, the well-being of the human race is not affected, and in fact, the money saved on superfluous care is actually an economic benefit. There are a few other cases where suicide is justifiable from several perspectives. They require more attention.
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#26 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 269
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I like how you're both arguing over who is patronizing when neither of you can spell euthanasia
patronized ps if you think everyone has a basic right to life then everyone should also have a basic right to death, obviously :/ -fs |
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#27 | |
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Old-School Player
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Rules? I know of no rules. Society might have lead you to feel that some things are right and some are wrong, like stealing, but rules are made based on past actions. And, as always, the rules never stop changing. As for it being a sin, that's unproveable unless you have a signed Polaroid of God lying about somewhere. For the record, i'm not relating this next subject to suicide, but your argument (immoral, sin, unethical, and violating the law) sounds exactly like the one that the supporters of racial segregation and current anti-homosexual lobby love to use for their "arguments". As for the person not being ready, I said several times, we are talking after years of therapy and medication have failed, not a spur-of-the-moment bout of depression. |
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#28 | |
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FFR Player
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And, as we all know, rules are infallable. Q |
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#29 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 269
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which totally explains how you can break the rules of spelling and not get struck by lightning 8)
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#30 | |
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Old-School Player
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I meant that rules are a mindset of society, and are not, shall we say, "set in stone". (Well, according to some religions, ten actually are, but that's beside the point at hand.) And many rules have been wrong. No blacks allowed in this school. No women are allowed to vote. Slavery is totally fine. |
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#31 |
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sunshine and rainbows
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 1,987
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Why am I not surprised the person whose morality is judged by the law is Texan?
(oops, did I just post that?) Someone said that religion isn't an issue here. It clearly is. Religion usually defines what is moral or not. I also think that people dying in wars belongs in this topic, the topic being people dying by someone else's hands. It doesn't really make sense that to kill people during a war for some higher purpose or belief is acceptable, but to kill someone for a personal reason, (in my mind, the personal ones are the ones which actually MATTER because people are what really matter), such as killing someone who raped you, will land you in jail. I don't live in the US. Do people really get sent to jail for attempted suicide in some states? That's BS. I know its illegal in Canada, but they don't put you in jail. Not only is it immoral, its stupid. Jail is there to separate the people who wreak chaos on society from those who don't, in a supposedly moral, and expensive, way. Some states still believe in executing extreme troublemakers. So tell me, how is putting someone in jail more of a help then just letting them be to try suicide again in terms of societal value? Because we ARE talking about what's best for society here. If they want to get rid of themselves, who are we to stop them? Of course, I believe in helping out the individual, so that they will eventually not want to kill themselves, but continue living. Its all about the individuals for me, in terms of my morality. Why should we place abstract ideals above the suffering of an individual? Everyone has their right to choose whether they want to live or not. However, people who do want to commit suicide because they feel horrible should think not only about their personal pain and stopping it, but also about the pain it will cause others they know. They key point here is as little pain as possible, and as much happiness as possible. Even if you're not happy, you can still make others happy. In one way, I see that something's better than nothing, even if that something is usually hurt. But I'm not going to impose on someone that they shouldn't kill themselves, and I'm certainly not going to think them immoral. If its someone I care about, and I'd be given a chance, I'd beg them to not do it, and I'd probably offer all the help I could to try and make them happy again. |
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#32 | ||||
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#33 |
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sunshine and rainbows
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 38
Posts: 1,987
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Sorry. I missed the sarcasm due to it being typed and I didn't bother associating previous posts you made with this one, which would have made what you said more obvious to me.
MY morality isn't judged by religion. But clearly, to some religious people, it is. |
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#35 | |
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I shall slap you with the free market later. Q |
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