Old 05-7-2006, 08:13 AM   #1
Z3ratul
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Question Jazz Theory...

Note: Wasn't sure exactly where this would belong... I decided on here because I figured I'd get a better response, even if the Static Junglegym might arguably be a better place to put this topic... meh.

Just posting here to get some insight from any musicians (preferably Jazz) on helping me with my improvisation. I play Tenor Sax (1st year, but Clarinet for six, so it was easy to pick up) in my high school's Jazz Ensemblem. I'm very comfortable with most of my major / minor scales, and can go into most of the other modes with little trouble as well. Rythmically, it all comes very naturally for me... I never struggle with that (too much SM?). Technique wise, while somewhat limited to being on a new insturment, I can still do good stuff on the Tenor... just nothing too advanced, especially cause the horn is crap >=(. I understand chord progression and what not...

Here's my problem. When I play an improv, the solo sounds good, it makes sense, but it always lacks a motif... idk. I'll use dynamics to make it go somewhere, it (usually) resolves nicely if I decide to throw in some disonance, and I'll start basic and try to have the solo, however long it may be, develop into something... but it never really does. It's like I'm just riding the wave, and when my solo's done, it leaves you with this sense of 'what were you going for?'. It's hard for me to explain... my solos never have an idea that's it's based off of, it's just random crap that I spew. Yes, it goes with the music, but that's all. There's no consistency to it...

Again, it's difficult for me to explain... it's just missing something. I understand what I'm playing up there, but it's lacking. Hopefully somebody gets what I'm trying to say... if anybody can help, I'd really appreciate. =)
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Old 05-7-2006, 11:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

Hm.

I have no experience or knowledge in Music Theory, but I listen to Jazz a whole damn lot, so I think I have an idea of what you're talking about. Basically, when you go solo, you go off on a tangent, and KEEP going until you solo's done. Like, like, every song has a sort of..."chorus", right? A melody that's repeated every once in a while, gives the song it's theme, or mood, or whatever it is. And when you play, it's just, like, cool stuff that's cool but not consistent with the general rythm or melody or mood or theme or whatever.

Is that it?
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Old 05-7-2006, 12:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

I play tenor sax in my school band and my school jazz band..
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Old 05-7-2006, 02:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

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Originally Posted by TK_Killer
I play tenor sax in my school band and my school jazz band..
Yea I hoped that helped you Z3ratul.

You say somethings still missing, Maybe its soul man. I know that sounds wierd but, When i jam, if im not into it, It sounds crap. *clicks fingers*
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Old 05-7-2006, 03:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

HAH. No, this isn't about "soul". I can tell you that much.
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Old 05-7-2006, 04:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

I have somewhat similar problems, although a lot of that could probably be traced to the fact that I play bari sax for jazz and horn, mellophone, trumpet, and euphonium for classical.

One way that could help you would be to write out solos based on the main theme/chorus of the song where it starts out very similarly to the main theme, and then progresses from that, but still has the same feel (just more complex). Once you get used to playing those written solos, improvization would come more naturally (and the composition of the solo in the first place sure wouldn't hurt).
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Old 05-7-2006, 07:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

I'd agree that if you know all the theory--understanding the chord changes, etc., then what you really need to do is just keep practicing it.

It's not that it's an intangible thing, as Omega said. It's just that it's likely extremely impossible to "figure it out" mentally.

But it will also be extremely helpful to listen to other real jazz players and copy what they do. There is nothing wrong with stealing licks.
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Old 05-7-2006, 09:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

Wow I have the exact problem when I play guitar, my technique is good, I'm fast and I know the scales I need to know, but I cannot just get that extra touch in my solos that'll make you remember em
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Old 05-7-2006, 10:08 PM   #9
Z3ratul
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

Omega and Das pretty much hit it. I'm pretty much trying to do what you suggested Dore, as that seems like the most logical approach. Then though I find I get stuck in the same groove and the solo seems stale. I guess I'm just trying to find that middle ground.
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Old 05-8-2006, 09:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omeganitros
HAH. No, this isn't about "soul". I can tell you that much.
Just saying is all, When im Jamming and im not having fun it all goes wrong.

*clicks fingers*
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Old 05-8-2006, 05:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

What's interesting Seth, is that's just it. My best solos come when I'm just havin fun, but those are also the ones that don't work as much. I think I've ingrained that habit in myself, and I need to consciously think about my solos going with the musical attributes of a song... until, that is, that it becomes second nature as well.
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Old 05-8-2006, 06:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

One problem might be the song. I have been in bands all my life and have played a variety of insruments, and i have to say, improvisation comes best from deep down. You have to appreciate and FEEL the song. If you can do that, then you should have no trouble at all. It also helps to pretty much memorize the song, and in your head think of the chorus, repeating in the background, with your solo flying out above it! Think of it not as a solo, persay, but a chance for the audience to hear you above all the rest. Make it snappy, make it sound like it's not improvisation, but memorization. It helps to not just come up with it on the spot. Improvise something as early as possible, and try to stick to the general rythm and sound of the original. It's usually the best. Sorry for rambling, but thats what i think. Hope it helps.

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~The Phantom Tuba
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Old 05-9-2006, 02:45 AM   #13
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Default Re: Jazz Theory...

Part of that might be my problem... thanks Petpro. Generally speaking, I come up with the solos right on the spot. Yeah, I practice random licks n stuff, but never really prepare anything until the solo hits. Maybe that's why it's a bit sporadic, haha. As far as feeling it... as long as it's not country, I'm lovin it XD
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