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Old 12-12-2005, 08:56 PM   #21
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Default RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
Meh, I would disagree with afro's interpretation because it supposes things that aren't in the quote. For example, the quote didn't say "Don't fight the monsters as the monsters fight/antagonize you" and when afro suggests that "one [should] simply solve the problem" that doesn't answer HOW to solve the problem. And I don't think Nietzche was trying to say "Don't fight the monsters, negotiate with them!"

Fire with fire IS NOT comparable because that suggests the methods by which fighting occurs, whereas in the actual quote nothing is said about HOW fighting between you and the monsters should happen, just that it shouldn't happen at all.
Yes, but if it does occur then the only thing you will get out of the fighting is eventually leading up to more and more fighting. Take wars for example, one war starts between two countries and then the countries allies hop in and then everyones at war. That Talisman proves fighting won't resolve anything. Which also proves that in the quote "Don't fight the monsters, lest ye become a monster." means don't fight the monster or else you will end up on the same path the monster did before it fought you. If you fight the monster, then truely you are the monster. Which proves that if the country who didn't start the war decides to fight in it then they help the cause of the war which is destruction. It's all malice. Chaos.
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Old 12-12-2005, 08:56 PM   #22
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Default RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

He's not saying you shouldn't battle monsters, he's merely stating that you need to be cautious when involving yourself deeply in a conflict of an evil nature. Because you can lose who you truly are down the path of purification.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:00 PM   #23
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Default RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

No, he's definitely saying you shouldn't battle monsters. That's why it says "Battle not with monsters".

It's unequivocal. Maybe if he wanted to mean more with it he should have fleshed it out a little more.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightknight924
Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman
Meh, I would disagree with afro's interpretation because it supposes things that aren't in the quote. For example, the quote didn't say "Don't fight the monsters as the monsters fight/antagonize you" and when afro suggests that "one [should] simply solve the problem" that doesn't answer HOW to solve the problem. And I don't think Nietzche was trying to say "Don't fight the monsters, negotiate with them!"

Fire with fire IS NOT comparable because that suggests the methods by which fighting occurs, whereas in the actual quote nothing is said about HOW fighting between you and the monsters should happen, just that it shouldn't happen at all.
Yes, but if it does occur then the only thing you will get out of the fighting is eventually leading up to more and more fighting. Take wars for example, one war starts between two countries and then the countries allies hop in and then everyones at war. That Talisman proves fighting won't resolve anything. Which also proves that in the quote "Don't fight the monsters, lest ye become a monster." means don't fight the monster or else you will end up on the same path the monster did before it fought you. If you fight the monster, then truely you are the monster. Which proves that if the country who didn't start the war decides to fight in it then they help the cause of the war which is destruction. It's all malice. Chaos.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:09 PM   #25
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

That is entirely tangential to my discussion and irrelevant, especially after my reply to spec.

I KNOW that he's saying if you battle the monsters you will become a monster. That isn't my point at all. My point relates to refuting previous claims that the quote is about HOW you fight the monsters/evils. It isn't. It's about whether or not the conflict is engaged in in the first place.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:16 PM   #26
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

He's not outright saying, "DON'T DO IT." He's just saying be careful.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:25 PM   #27
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you."

I disagree, it seems pretty clear. If he wanted to say "be careful" the quote would be

"Be careful when battling monsters, lest ye become a monster..."
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:25 PM   #28
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

For fighting will lead you down a trail of betrayal young padowan. Anger, to the dark side it leads.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:28 PM   #29
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

it's deeper than that, the only reason I say that is because I've read most of his works. So either it was just a surface problem or he just contradicts the fuck out of himself.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:34 PM   #30
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

Or else he just has clarity issues. I find most philosophers like to deliberatle muddy things so that they seem more profound. For example here the parallel structure would indicate that there's some kind of connection between "monsters" and "abyss". Yet while both are vaguely evil, I can't draw any direct connection between the two ideas. Are monsters supposed to be external and the abyss internal? Impossible to answer conclusively.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:35 PM   #31
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

talisman, i cant tell you how much i love you, yes homo.

you say all the things i'm not smart/articulate enough to say.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:36 PM   #32
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

Yeah, so technically we both could be right, but I see your point exactly and the only thing that keeps me from agree with it is other stuff I read, I'll try to see if I can find it.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:38 PM   #33
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

<3 fojar

spec, other stuff might definitely throw this into a different light. I gather he didn't just publish this quote all by itself...
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:38 PM   #34
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you."

Battle not with monsters... Meaning, you should never solve your problems with Pokemon. Always fight with guns, swords, or something... But not a tiny little animal that lives inside of a ball. Or else... You will become a Pokemon. I know, strange, but it makes sense if you think about it.

If you gaze into the abyss... Be careful. That movie was long, convuluted and boring as hell. And when you watch it, can you tell me honestly that Ed Harris isn't staring into your soul with his big brown chocolate pudding eyes?

I think I nailed it.

Mal
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:40 PM   #35
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

Wow
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:43 PM   #36
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Default Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalReynolds
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes into you."

Battle not with monsters... Meaning, you should never solve your problems with Pokemon. Always fight with guns, swords, or something... But not a tiny little animal that lives inside of a ball. Or else... You will become a Pokemon. I know, strange, but it makes sense if you think about it.

If you gaze into the abyss... Be careful. That movie was long, convuluted and boring as hell. And when you watch it, can you tell me honestly that Ed Harris isn't staring into your soul with his big brown chocolate pudding eyes?

I think I nailed it.

Mal
ohman.

ohman....
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:00 PM   #37
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Default RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Discuss the meaning of this quot

Hay mal, I think you need to stop being so clever. It's really annoying to come here expecting more talking of if he meant to avoid fighting all together or if he meant to be cautious, and all I find is one of the funniest things I've seen in recent years.
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