Old 10-29-2020, 11:52 AM   #1
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Default France

Things seem to be escalating recently with Islamic terrorism following the murder of Samuel Paty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty. Hopefully this subsides and doesn't turn into a full blown insurgency of sorts. If anyone is going to lash back though it's the French which is why it could get ugly...

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Old 10-29-2020, 12:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: France

Worth keeping an eye on, but honestly my home team of America really just needs to sit this one out
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: France

I'm partially convinced that there's a lot of things wrong at the moment in France and it's becoming a domino effect of riots & civil unrest lately. I don't think it's specifically isolated to islamic terrorism, but I could be wrong. I haven't exactly done my research on the subject of what's going on over there, just noting that they're getting some international attention over the unrest going on over there for various reasons.

This happened at Champigny-sur-Marne in the south-eastern suburbs of Paris on October 12th

https://rmx.news/article/article/vid...-and-iron-bars
https://twitter.com/InfosFrancaises/...82042213122048

This happened the other night (29th) in Lyon, France regarding a Turkish/Armenian conflict.

https://news.am/eng/news/610391.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1422175.html
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Old 10-31-2020, 10:09 AM   #4
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unsurprisingly no one wants to talk about islam
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: France

The French (and by heavy association Québec) has always been big on secularism and freedom to criticize. In their case though, they take it to a sort of extreme to the point of restricting religious garments if you hold public office (though I understand the argument that if you represent the state, you need to be impartial and represent its secularism). Francophones have a very complicated and strained relationship with religion and this is most certainly going to fan the flames. Islamophobia will be rampant.

This does invite an interesting discussion about religion and what the state can and cannot do in terms of regulating faith.
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Old 10-31-2020, 09:13 PM   #6
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In their case though, they take it to a sort of extreme to the point of restricting religious garments if you hold public office
You think it will even occur to them to check if anybody's wearing a cross or crucifix necklace? Or do the rules against religious garments only extend to the non-Christian ones? Isn't there a big ol cross on the wall in the room where they voted that legislation into law?
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Old 10-31-2020, 09:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: France

yeah i'm one of those who ain't posting 'cause i don't know enough to comment. that murder's fucked though

i remember learning about those comics in the news and being mad at the people who drew them
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Old 11-1-2020, 01:10 AM   #8
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ugh
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Old 11-1-2020, 01:10 PM   #9
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i remember learning about those comics in the news and being mad at the people who drew them
ee
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Old 11-1-2020, 01:14 PM   #10
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i remember learning about those comics in the news and being mad at the people who drew them
Wat
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Old 11-1-2020, 01:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: France

did i say something lmao

y'all realize how offensive drawing prophet muhammad-- who first of all shouldn't be drawn in the first place-- NAKED is? like... dude, muslims were ENRAGED. in islam it's very important not to draw or take pictures of important figures so that they're not idolized

edit: or... i guess ridiculed too

i ain't supporting anyone dying over anything though. i know charlie hebdo was attacked for the comics
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There comes a point where we have to ask our selves, "do we really want to deal with that, desperate as we are?"

I think we can all agree on the answer, yeah?

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Old 11-2-2020, 09:20 AM   #12
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did i say something lmao

y'all realize how offensive drawing prophet muhammad-- who first of all shouldn't be drawn in the first place-- NAKED is? like... dude, muslims were ENRAGED. in islam it's very important not to draw or take pictures of important figures so that they're not idolized

edit: or... i guess ridiculed too

i ain't supporting anyone dying over anything though. i know charlie hebdo was attacked for the comics
That's the entire point of the "wat" remark though...there's a huge difference between being mad / pushing for censorship and straight up murdering someone because "you drew offense to my religion"

Choof's post is accurate and I should have expected this topic to be a non-starter. That said, most of you must understand that a significant portion of the Islamic faith is morally fucked up but y'all would rather stick your heads in the sand whether it's out of fear (wonder why) or because you don't think it's your problem. Well it might be some day sooner than you think, hence why I wanted to discuss this in the first place. Conflicts like these could be the precursor to something bigger and I think it's worth keeping an eye on.
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Old 11-2-2020, 09:44 AM   #13
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You think it will even occur to them to check if anybody's wearing a cross or crucifix necklace? Or do the rules against religious garments only extend to the non-Christian ones? Isn't there a big ol cross on the wall in the room where they voted that legislation into law?
There's an obvious bias towards feigning ignorance towards christians in this matter. But the big cross in that room where they voted was removed last year.

I'm a big supporter of secularism especially when it comes to various lobbies affecting political decisions. Though I realize my views are very biased and probably would censor religious opinions/influence on politics which is hypocritical.
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Old 11-2-2020, 09:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: France

You don't have to buy or support satire that mocks [group] if that ain't your thing, and any sane person won't go off and kill someone else because of some joke. Unless of course you have no intention to be a civil member of society, or are an insane savage clinging to one of the most backwards cultural distortions of religious teachings there is today.
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Old 11-2-2020, 10:20 AM   #15
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Default Re: France

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a significant portion of the Islamic faith is morally fucked up but y'all would rather stick your heads in the sand whether it's out of fear (wonder why) or because you don't think it's your problem. Well it might be some day sooner than you think, hence why I wanted to discuss this in the first place. Conflicts like these could be the precursor to something bigger and I think it's worth keeping an eye on.
All abrahamic religions are morally evil and fucked up, I promise it's not just Islam. Think about baptists down south marrying off their 14 year old daughters. There are extremists of all types. Then there is my neighbour who is muslim and currently has 4 foster kids, of like 50 she's had over the years. She's done way more for Canadian society than 99% of people

For us specifically Dynamo, we live in a place where we have publicly funded Catholic schools. I went to one. That is a way bigger of a problem to me and bigger threat to my well being than random islamic extremists. There's literal religious indoctrination being provincially funded

I agree with you in that I think Islam is a net negative to society but I feel the same way about all religions. and honestly Catholics have a lot more influence on me personally so I'd rather talk about that
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Old 11-2-2020, 10:58 AM   #16
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That's the entire point of the "wat" remark though...there's a huge difference between being mad / pushing for censorship and straight up murdering someone because "you drew offense to my religion"

Choof's post is accurate and I should have expected this topic to be a non-starter. That said, most of you must understand that a significant portion of the Islamic faith is morally fucked up but y'all would rather stick your heads in the sand whether it's out of fear (wonder why) or because you don't think it's your problem. Well it might be some day sooner than you think, hence why I wanted to discuss this in the first place. Conflicts like these could be the precursor to something bigger and I think it's worth keeping an eye on.
you're using the actions of extremists to criticize an entire religion
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There comes a point where we have to ask our selves, "do we really want to deal with that, desperate as we are?"

I think we can all agree on the answer, yeah?
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Old 11-2-2020, 12:01 PM   #17
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All abrahamic religions are morally evil and fucked up, I promise it's not just Islam. Think about baptists down south marrying off their 14 year old daughters. There are extremists of all types. Then there is my neighbour who is muslim and currently has 4 foster kids, of like 50 she's had over the years. She's done way more for Canadian society than 99% of people

For us specifically Dynamo, we live in a place where we have publicly funded Catholic schools. I went to one. That is a way bigger of a problem to me and bigger threat to my well being than random islamic extremists. There's literal religious indoctrination being provincially funded

I agree with you in that I think Islam is a net negative to society but I feel the same way about all religions. and honestly Catholics have a lot more influence on me personally so I'd rather talk about that
I went to a Catholic school as well and as soon as I learned about world religions that's when I knew it was all bs. I agree that our society is predominantly Judeo-Christian and the separation of church and state is not near complete enough. The important distinction here is that religious moderates in these faiths are effective at condemning the extreme interpretations of their holy books and a great deal of reform has taken place. Islam on the other hand...

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you're using the actions of extremists to criticize an entire religion
Ah yes, the "not all Muslims" argument. Aside from the fact that Raeko is doing the same thing in her post (I'm not defending any religions btw they are all dumb at their core), this is just untrue.

If this is purely extremism and not representative of a significant portion the faith, why are Muslim leaders around the world consistently either silent or even in support of this behaviour? Why do polls conducted by Pew Research Centre confirm these views aren't in the extreme at all? Apostacy = death, that's a generally accepted view in the Muslim world. Homosexuality is no different. Don't even get me started on women's rights.

The founder of the religion was a warlord who conducted raids and gathered a following through the use of violence and barbarism. It is the only Abrahamic religion that describes how to conduct war. This is part of the reason why even the most liberal reformists have a hard time "interpreting" the Quran in a peaceful light.

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Old 11-2-2020, 12:18 PM   #18
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itt: islamophobia in 2020

i ain't doing this on the forums man. not again. this is straight up not okay though
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There comes a point where we have to ask our selves, "do we really want to deal with that, desperate as we are?"

I think we can all agree on the answer, yeah?
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Old 11-2-2020, 12:43 PM   #19
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Thread is being re-opened.
Please be mindful of people and their beliefs even if they're not represented in this thread. A close eye will be kept on this thread.
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Old 11-2-2020, 01:49 PM   #20
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itt: islamophobia in 2020
It's too easy to write off criticism of something as -phobia especially when you yourself brought nothing to the discussion. Elaborate your point!
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