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Old 01-17-2013, 03:10 AM   #1
Gmanyo
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Default Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

ARTICLE

Ron Fouchier has succeeded in creating a strain of H5N1 that can be passed between humans through airborne means. This is, essentially, a superflu. From the article:
Quote:
"I can't think of another pathogenic organism that is as scary as this one," Paul Keim, a microbial geneticist who has worked on anthrax for many years, told Science Insider. "I don't think anthrax is scary at all compared to this."
Fouchier wants to publish his study, but many are against this, as it could potentially fall into the wrong hands:
Quote:
"It's just a bad idea for scientists to turn a lethal virus into a lethal and highly contagious virus. And it's a second bad idea for them to publish how they did it so others can copy it," believes Dr. Thomas Inglesby, a bioterrorism expert and director of the Center for Biosecurity of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center.
On the other hand, it has shown that it is much easier for this virus to become contagious than previously thought, and might help in the event that the virus does become airborne:
Quote:
However the very same data, if made available to the scientific community, could potentially allow humanity to prepare for an H5N1 pandemic, which Fouchier’s study has shown to be far more probable than was previously believed. Clamping down on freedom of information in the scientific domain may in the end leave us defenseless against the flu, should it arise naturally.
So should the study be published (EDIT: my bad, already published a revised version, too late)? Should the experiments have even been done in the first place? We wouldn't want another Africanized bee incident. Do the benefits outweigh the potential dangers?

I personally don't know. I do think that the article probably over-dramatizes the dangers, but even if "half humanity" is a dramatization, the real thing is still probably pretty bad. I'm also deathly afraid of illness (ba dum tss). My gut reaction is to say release the papers (for science!) but in this case I don't know if the possible consequences are worth it. In fact, the biggest ethical issue at hand might this:

Are we really doing this for the good of humanity are we just doing it for "science" hard-ons?

I can't tell. I really can't.

edit:
I'm too tired to go on much, but here's another article which gives a different spin on things, should've done a bit more research before posting. Also the stuff is already published. Give it a look. Also just noticed this was 2011, not 2012. Still, questions are valid, and I'm still not sure what my answers are to them. I'd say more, but I'm going to bed.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

Oh this is interesting
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

Details should not be made public imo. It should stay out of public's reach due to the potential danger involved by ill-willed people and should only be made available to a select few. The research itself is a good step forward to researching and reducing the threat of this disease but publishing how and what publicly is just asking for bio-terrorism.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

I fail to see and haven't even been presented with ANY reason why this was done. Surely making a disease airborne and incredibly contagious has nothing whatsoever to do with a cure or treatment. If they wanted to learn HOW virii become airborne, why not work with something a benign?
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:49 AM   #5
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

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Surely making a disease airborne and incredibly contagious has nothing whatsoever to do with a cure or treatment.
It does.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

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I fail to see and haven't even been presented with ANY reason why this was done. Surely making a disease airborne and incredibly contagious has nothing whatsoever to do with a cure or treatment. If they wanted to learn HOW virii become airborne, why not work with something a benign?
do you not know how a vaccine works
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:23 PM   #7
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

The point was to find out how H5N1 might become transmissible through the air. Turns out that there is a way, and given the rapid evolution of viruses, it's very much possible that it could be out there. Now that we have the virus strain, however, we can find out how it works, and from there weaken it to the point that a vaccine can be developed.

This vaccine would be a freaking life-saver.

As for the OP, I say release the info to the CDC only. If we need to ramp up progress towards a treatment, or more vaccine needs to be developed, then sure, release it on a need-to-know basis in case this thing breaks out somewhere else.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

"Now that we have the virus strain, however, we can find out how it works, and from there weaken it to the point that a vaccine can be developed."

We already had a virus strain. We already know how to make virii airborne. If we have a vaccine for the non-airborne version, then we have a vaccine for the airborne one too. If that weren't the case it wouldn't be H5N1 anymore.

It seems like people are suggesting that we should start chipping away at the infinite and start making vaccines for non-existant illnesses. It seems downright dumb to create what could be called bio-terrorist weapons and then say it's for preventative measures.

In regards to publicity, don't publish it unless you also publish the vaccine too.

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Old 01-22-2013, 12:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

I'm not sure how vaccines work, but I always thought that a vaccine had to be made for each particular strand of a virus, therefore a vaccine made for a given lab-created H5N1 strand would not work for one that occurred naturally, nor would a vaccine for the non-contagious one work for the contagious one. Viruses mutate. That's why there is a new flu vaccine every year, and the best they've gotten for an HIV vaccine is 90% effectiveness, and that was in one trial. Maybe I'm wrong though; I was trying to do some research but vaccines are confusing.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

My argument was that if this strain of H5N1 is air-transmissible, something is different about the virus that is causing the pathogen to survive in air where it previously did not. Therefore, it's likely that the surface proteins on the virus that it uses to latch onto the host cell are different, therefore a new vaccine needs to be developed.

Typically the way to make a flu vaccine is you kill the bug, and then prepare a solution from the killed stuff. The body sees the dead bug, recognizes it as hostile, and knows to lock it down and kill it if it comes in again. (Antibodies--the original anti-virus program.)

As for why H5N1 is so scary: First, most flu shots don't account for it. Second, it's already out there, killing millions of birds every year. Third, there's evidence that it's already getting into humans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influen...s_subtype_H5N1
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I literally spent 10 minutes in the library looking for the TWG forum on Smogon and couldn't find it what the fuck is this witchcraft IGR

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Old 01-22-2013, 09:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

Igotrhythm's on the right track.

If we have a air-transmissible virus, we can begin to make a vaccine for it. Better to work on a vaccine now with the virus contained in a lab somewhere than to wait until we have a national/global pandemic.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

Also, if we could make it, potentially someone else could in the future-- another nation perhaps wanting to use it as a weapon. If we can make it first and find a vaccine for it, then there isn't a potential threat if and when another nation were to make it.

I think working out ways to make vaccines in general is something that can be taken as handy regardless of if there's a disease that's a problem to begin with. Better to be preventative than to wait until it becomes a problem/people are already dying. Statistically finding out what diseases/viruses COULD arise in time based on the ones we already have, and finding out a way around them, can't hurt.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:26 AM   #13
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Default Re: Contagious Version of H5N1 Created in Lab

Or maybe you can spread out the disease you just created so you can sell the vaccines huehue
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