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Old 10-3-2008, 04:26 PM   #1
Relambrien
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Default American Election '08 - Some observations and questions

Anyone who follows American politics knows that this is a landmark election coming up in November. Besides the fact that for the first time, a black candidate may be elected, there is also the question of the American economic crisis (which will be felt by the whole world due to America's world standing), tensions in the Middle East, and America's position in the world as a whole.

But what I find strange is that, considering most voting Americans recognize the significance of this election, many people aren't conducting adequate research (in my opinion). They're voting on a whim or for only one thing, when one would think this would be more important to them than that.

Take for example my mother. She's a pretty strong Republican (for reference, I'm left-leaning, about 65/35 Dem/Rep split). She says she's going to vote for John McCain, which is expected since she is a Republican, but the reasoning she gives...I don't quite understand it. She claims that she cannot vote for Barack Obama because of his associates, namely his wife and pastor. According to her, Rev. Wright said that all white people are members of the KKK (which may or may not be true, I'm not sure), and that because Obama associated with him for so many years, he must share Wright's views.

As for Obama's wife, my mother keeps harping on her comment, "For the first time in my adult life, I am proud to be an American." She claims that this shows a severe lack of patriotism on the part of Michelle Obama, and that because Barack married her, he must share the same opinion.

But that isn't the worst part. I can understand her opinions assuming what she said is true, but she isn't even considering that her sources (or her interpretation of them) might have been incorrect. Considering her sources are Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and CNN, I'm worried. She isn't going out to do research on her own, she isn't trying to find all sides of an argument, she hasn't visited either candidate's website to read their opinions.

The reason I don't like her sources isn't because they're Republican; it's that they're part of the popular media. Their purpose is ratings. I don't care whether you're Democrat, Republican, hell even if you're a Green, if you're being put on the radio, it's because the radio company thinks that your views are radical or controversial enough to bring in ratings. CNN is definitely more trustworthy, but still nowhere near the level of going out and doing research from both candidate's websites and a variety of sources.

Anyway, enough about that. Another observation I've noted is the fact that a lot of people I've spoken to seem to be voting with only one issue in mind. One of my school teachers says that he has to vote for John McCain, because Barack Obama is for abortion. That's the only thing he's voting for--abortion. He's completely ignoring the war in Iraq, rising tensions elsewhere in the Middle East (especially Iran and Israel, considering Iran's statement today that they will continue their nuclear program because they do not fear an attack from either Israel or the US), and the American economy in favor of ensuring that all conceived babies are born.

As I mentioned above, my mother is the same way. Completely ignoring Obama's stance on the issues of the election, she cannot vote for him because of his associates.

Next, I noticed something that's actually pretty understandable. My mother's interpretation of things is very very different from my own. For instance, there was an event in Delaware pertaining to Joe Biden (being from Delaware, we naturally have a heightened interest in this). He spoke to a crowd, and said the following (paraphrased): "I never wanted the VP job. But when Barack asked me to take it, I felt obligated to do so, for America."

My mother interpreted this to mean that Biden would be resigning the VP post because he didn't want it. I interpreted it to mean that although Biden never aspired to it, he felt it was his duty when he was asked.

Obviously, people are going to interpret things in a way that is favorable to them. However, I like to think I'm better than most people at finding other interpretations that may not support my own ideas, and seeing if they are valid or not. I think many people don't realize what other interpretations of what a candidate says may exist, and so call others "liars" when they use a certain speech a certain way.

Finally, and this is purely anecdotal, but it seems to me that in general, those who are more well-researched on the election, the candidate's positions, and the state of America tend to be voting for Barack Obama than for John McCain. I can't say whether or not this is an actual trend, or if it's just because of the people I tend to associate with, but it's just something I've noticed. Those who actually know what's going on in the world and have an idea about the troubles here tend to be Obama supporters, whereas the McCain supporters I've seen are typically supporting him for the "patriot" image of a shining America that can't back down from an enemy.

It's sad, because McCain definitely has good points and arguments, and yet the McCain supporters I've seen aren't doing him justice. I love to see good, well-thought-out debate, but I'm just not seeing it here. If anyone can direct me to a good, civil debate between Obama and McCain supporters, I'd love to see it (and before someone says it, I'm not talking about the VP debate).

So, any thoughts on my observations? Criticism is welcome, of course.
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Old 10-3-2008, 06:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: American Election '08 - Some observations and questions

You can't dig too deep into the mainstream candidates. That's why people don't do it. You try it and all you're going to find is that BOTH candidates would be ****ty presidents. But at the same, you've got to realize that your vote is worthless if you don't put it on someone who might have a chance at winning the election, and the Democrat and the Republican are the only ones who do. So basically, you've got to pick the lesser of two evils or you're not going to have any effect at all. It's because of the way the electoral college works more than anything else.

And as far as people choosing based on one issue: that's what's called a deal breaker. Obama's policies aren't too bad, but his stance on taxes and spending are a major issue for me (that is, he's "lowering" taxes, but in reality he's increasing taxes and shifting the burden to the rich). Not to say that I'm all that fond of McCain's stance either (namely: EVERYONE should get tax cuts, but at least his stance on spending is better than Obama's), but it is preferable, and if I were forced to pick one of the two, it'd be for that. The only other qualm I've got on Obama is his claim that he'll do a full withdrawal from Iraq, but I'm not concerned about that, because I know he can't do it. He's just saying that to get votes; he can't exactly be up there saying "Iraq war is a failure and that's Bush's fault blah blah MORE OF THE SAME" then immediately turn around and admit that it would be a terrible idea to just pull out without cleaning up the mess we'd made.

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if it's just because of the people I tend to associate with
That's what it is, I'm sure. The youth is already left leaning naturally, especially in this election year. I seriously doubt that you spend more time with people 30~40+ than you do people from ~18~25.
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Old 10-3-2008, 06:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: American Election '08 - Some observations and questions

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So basically, you've got to pick the lesser of two evils or you're not going to have any effect at all.
Yes, and considering that these two evils may vary extremely, you would think it would be smart for people to actually care enough about it to do some serious research.

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And as far as people choosing based on one issue: that's what's called a deal breaker. Obama's policies aren't too bad, but his stance on taxes and spending are a major issue for me (that is, he's "lowering" taxes, but in reality he's increasing taxes and shifting the burden to the rich). Not to say that I'm all that fond of McCain's stance either (namely: EVERYONE should get tax cuts, but at least his stance on spending is better than Obama's), but it is preferable, and if I were forced to pick one of the two, it'd be for that.
See, a topic like that I can understand. Taxes and government spending directly affect not only your life, but the lives of all Americans. With the economy in the state that it's in, this sort of thing is extremely important. I'm not saying all issues should be given equal weight, but things like abortion and illegal immigration are so minor at this point that it just doesn't make sense to pick a candidate based solely on that. I mean, I'd compromise on one of those as long as the candidate had a position on the economy that I supported, e.g., "Well he doesn't think illegal immigration is a problem but his economic plan is genius, so it's worth it to vote for him considering how important the economy is right now."

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That's what it is, I'm sure. The youth is already left leaning naturally, especially in this election year. I seriously doubt that you spend more time with people 30~40+ than you do people from ~18~25.
Yes, I think you're right.

Last edited by Relambrien; 10-3-2008 at 06:58 PM..
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Old 10-3-2008, 07:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: American Election '08 - Some observations and questions

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=vhylAHjqop8
The video title is stupid. The content is interesting to hear, especially because I feel the same way as this guy.
As for the financial crisis, Obama's middle class proposal appeals to me a lot.
But then again, I'm a Canadian. =/
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Old 10-4-2008, 12:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: American Election '08 - Some observations and questions

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Originally Posted by Relambrien View Post
But what I find strange is that, considering most voting Americans recognize the significance of this election, many people aren't conducting adequate research (in my opinion).
I don't want to read through your entire post completely because it just seems like a rant about your mom, but the reason why voters may be uninformed is because their votes count for almost nothing (what are the chances a single vote will make a difference?), so they don't feel an obligation to make fully unbiased and fully informed opinions.

Here's a little political science for you... those one-issue people... yes they're pretty silly, but the main reason is not because there are other issues per se but because the president barely has any control over anything except foreign policy, foreign relations, and looking good for the public.* That's probably about 4/5s of being President. Most other issues that can be dealt with are left to the states.

Associates... well I don't have anything really to say about that. Perhaps a polemic could try to come up with a good reason for abstaining a vote because of that, but I doubt it. That's as far as I can tell, obviously silly.

*which is one thing that bugged me about your reasons why this election is important... the economy really has nothing to do with the president, and the president can't and probably won't do much. Or, at least they won't do much different-- they'll be pressured too much by macroeconomic advisers who know far far far more than the candidates themselves.
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Old 10-4-2008, 01:15 AM   #6
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Default Re: American Election '08 - Some observations and questions

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Originally Posted by Relambrien View Post
As for Obama's wife, my mother keeps harping on her comment, "For the first time in my adult life, I am proud to be an American." She claims that this shows a severe lack of patriotism on the part of Michelle Obama, and that because Barack married her, he must share the same opinion.
There's nothing wrong about not being extremely patriotic to your country. Contrary to popular belief, it shows little about a person's character, and it shouldn't matter to the people anyway because she, herself, isn't running for President, and she's not Barack Obama. Just because Obama is married to her, that doesn't mean anything about the points of views that Obama himself holds. In other words, just because she is his wife, it doesn't mean she has the same opinion on certain issues and topics. Besides, at least she is being honest and truthful about her opinion, which is a lot more than what other political leaders are.
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Old 10-4-2008, 04:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: American Election '08 - Some observations and questions

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Originally Posted by lord_carbo View Post
I don't want to read through your entire post completely because it just seems like a rant about your mom, but the reason why voters may be uninformed is because their votes count for almost nothing (what are the chances a single vote will make a difference?), so they don't feel an obligation to make fully unbiased and fully informed opinions.
I'm sorry if my post seemed that way. It was meant to be just a set of observations I've noticed, using my mother as an example, since I know her best (though there are many others I've seen exhibiting similar behavior). Anyway, I can definitely see your point there.

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Here's a little political science for you... those one-issue people... yes they're pretty silly, but the main reason is not because there are other issues per se but because the president barely has any control over anything except foreign policy, foreign relations, and looking good for the public.* That's probably about 4/5s of being President. Most other issues that can be dealt with are left to the states.
I recognize that the president doesn't exactly have too much power in things like the economy, but he is very -influential- when it comes to just about anything. People listen to the President. If he encourages something, many people will go for it. So, two presidents with differing economic opinions could have far-reaching and vastly different effects on the economy, if indirectly.

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Associates... well I don't have anything really to say about that. Perhaps a polemic could try to come up with a good reason for abstaining a vote because of that, but I doubt it. That's as far as I can tell, obviously silly.
Alright.

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*which is one thing that bugged me about your reasons why this election is important... the economy really has nothing to do with the president, and the president can't and probably won't do much. Or, at least they won't do much different-- they'll be pressured too much by macroeconomic advisers who know far far far more than the candidates themselves.
Those advisers would be partial to the President's opinion, though, which again is why I believe that economy does play a pretty important role in this election.
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Old 10-4-2008, 05:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: American Election '08 - Some observations and questions

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he is very -influential- when it comes to just about anything. People listen to the President. If he encourages something, many people will go for it.
Only people who are already aligned with the president listen to the president. Think about Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11. He was speculating that it might make a difference in the election, but that didn't happen: it just turned Bush haters into bigger Bush haters. And that's how it works at any level.

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Those advisers would be partial to the President's opinion, though, which again is why I believe that economy does play a pretty important role in this election.
Except economists tend to advocate the same thing in a lot of respects and their role is to "guide" the president, e.g. fix up his budget and tell him how a policy may work in practice. In a market economy, the government really has little influence. The market is guided almost completely by the self interests of those who take part in the buying and selling of goods. Beyond the budget-- and even that he doesn't have full control over-- he may as well not be there save for the haphazard instances where he has to sign a bill nobody could have possibly known would get passed into law, e.g. the Medicare prescription drug bill Bushed signed into law.
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Old 10-4-2008, 08:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: American Election '08 - Some observations and questions

I've been keeping a pretty good eye on the election and I watch the debates as wel.. I'm a libertarian, and I have to say that I'm not really excited about either candidate. They have many similarities and shared viewpoints. As much as I like hearing Obama talk, I feel like his phrase "change" has very little meaning. I don't think his stance on the economic crisis is good, just like McCain's. Both of them voted in favor of the new bailout bill which was passed yesterday in the house of representatives, so again, I feel like they are both just the same kind of candidates that we, the Americans, are always presented with. And yeah, I left out the VPs and stuff, since that's another whole topic right there :/
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