Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > Life and Arts > Art and Graphics
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-21-2004, 06:06 PM   #81
Mwerp
Banned
 
Mwerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,078
Default

Quote:
So , I have used Bryce for almost a year. I stopped somewhat recently, though. There is a reason why, in fact. It's because in Bryce, there is hardly any room for expansion. When I say that, I mean it is an INCREDIBLY limited program. The most advanced things it can do are Booleans (that's pretty damn simple), and it has an okay texture editor. It would be good if the Bryce engine didn't make almost everything look like plastic.
That's as far as your mind was able to take you with it. I'm sorry you never saw any possibility for expansion with other aspects of it.

Quote:
It does good metals, some fun volumetrics, and that's it. When I see about 90% of all bryce renders, I either think: "Hi, mister incredibly high specular coefficient!", "Hi, mister transparent metal texture!", "Hi, mister torus (x1000)!", "Hi, mister thats alot of random diffuse and ambient light that has nothing to do with the environment!", or finally "Hi, mister default full-entity lighting which is completely useless and makes things ugly!".
You just described basically everything you have told me in the past looks excellent. Everything you ever wanted/tried to replicate.
The renders you're seeing are composed by people of little artifice in that field.
I'm not saying I've never done that before.

Quote:
So naturally, having used bryce for many moons, I am guilty of most of those (actually, some are unpreventable due to poor programming, but some are reversible by the user telling it what to do). I am not a wonderful 3d artist. I do not know much about art theory. And yet, I can say all of this because I have used the program, extensively. Bryce is far from wonderful.
If you never got past toruses and shiny textures then I can tell you right now that you have not used the program extensively.

Quote:
Hell, it even makes things take long to render.
subjective

Quote:
Its the most messed up type of rendering I have seen. Ever.
I'm not so sure you ever discovered the "render to disk" option?

Quote:
Bryce took me only about a month to get familiar with. Easy learning interface, easy user interface. those are nice. But its so easy, that you soon find out that it is impossible to do things such as specific polygon editing/manipulation (EVERY OTHER PROGRAM can do that), it does not do NURBS (not that I use these...ever...but every other program can do these, too), has nothing that can confuse or thwart a new graphical artist. This is not good, because with the marked LACK of options, there is a marked LACK of possible variety.
Here you say this and then you go on to say that you have seen people surpass it and work around it.
What side are you playing on?
What you're doing is taking into full focus consideration the morons who use the tool and pump out excessive amounts of metal toruses, and hardly giving the truely efficient anythought at all. You're like 90% of history textbooks. Every one of them will make you think that Columbus was a great person for discovering America and all that jazz. They happen to conveniently leave out every bad thing he and his crew ever did to the natives. Slavery, brutal senseless murder for fun, labor, the list goes on. It's ridiculous. And that's what you're doing with the topic at hand. You're a one-sided text book.

Quote:
Only a couple of people I have ever seen have conquered the lack of options. RJ is one--kind of--he only manages to surpass others because of his Photoshop skills.
Incorrect. His renders are FAR from being your generic blinged up torus compilation. True, he's amazing with Photoshop as well. That doesn't mean he isn't awesome at Bryce.

Quote:
That's what it seems for the most part.
You don't sound too sure about yourself.

Quote:
Also, a rather clever guy who could use terrain and lattices to render damned ANYTHING. And finally this other guy--not famous, no name I can recall. He rendered an AWESOME motorcycle in Bryce--I have no idea how he managed it.
Intersections etc.

Quote:
He did know art theory, I recall from his site. I think it was his major. But wow, that was good for the program's capabilities.
Are you trying to prove yourself wrong or something?

Quote:
So, for about 5-10 people, Bryce is a very good program.
Okay you've got to be kidding me.
Which side are you on?

Quote:
It is an okay program for perhaps a couple hundred people. Perhaps. For the rest, it is largely mediocre. Mwerp, this includes you. Most of your work was mediocre.
mmk opinion I happen to think it's pretty and I also happen to think ice cream is too cold so I don't eat it. Whatever.

Quote:
Some, sure I liked. Then I saw it over and over an over again in all of your other renders. Please branch out in your style.
What.
Okay.
Har.
Point out to me how all of my renders are the same.

Quote:
Wait, you can't, because Bryce doesn't LET you.
Hahaha, I've always thought that looks really unprofessional when people answer their own proposal asked of someone else before the other person is even given a chance to reply.

Quote:
I have the same problem. The best I can do is multireplicate shitloads of spheres, apply a funky texture, photoshop, and call it art. Is it art? Sure. Is it good? Not really. Is it original? I haven't seen things like it before, but probably not.
Whoa what the heck?
All of my renders are spheres? Toruses? I rarely use them. And if I do, they generally don't look like them.

Quote:
I think, overall, that Bryce might be good for beginners. Maybe about 2 weeks of instruction from a person will do you good, then you just regress and regress and regress into bad 3d habits. They are difficult to break when you try newer, better, more difficult programs.
Subjective. Depends on how you learn, and how mentally capable you are.

Quote:
I have used 3dsm6 quite a bit, with no help files, tutorials, or anything. It was fucking tricky. I hardly had a chance to experiment, but I had already realized how strong the program was. Features, features, and more features. Good ones. Very importantly, speedy rendering. Speedier than Bryce, in any case. Lightwave is even more so. It was used for the 3d parts of the Mars Lander documentary. High quality. It was used in several motion pictures, such as the Iron Giant, if I recall. But Maya is even more prominent than THAT. If you are used to 3d model Tekken figures, you know you're good right there. Even if you ignore the rest of its extensive and impressive resume. Bam, one item I picked off a list, and you can see that beautiful things can be made with it.
I never said these programs were not good/not difficult to use.
I say, why go the extra mile if you can't get higher than the A you'd have received without it?
Sure, Bryce isn't as difficult as 3DSM. Then you have people rendering bicycles and whatnot. The majority of my renders(most of which I haven't posted here) don't even look like what you'd expect Bryce to be capable of.
Also, we're talking about abstract, not modelling. It's senseless to regress to that category.

Quote:
Another thing, Bryce looks crappy without secondary production (more editing of pictures in a different program), almost always.
Not true. A Bryce beginner's work look crappy without post production.

Quote:
It needs it. With all of these other, better programs, much less so. Though almost everything looks better after secondary production, I must admit.
Not in all cases does it need post production. I've seen plenty of renders from 3DSM that TOTALLY need post production, and even then they still look pretty stupid in my opinion. And to think that crap gets favs by the handful on deviantart.

Quote:
Bryce is largely unimpressive. Nobody has used it professionally since maybe the Mid 1990's. And we all know how good the 3d looked back then, Mmmm, MMM!
abstract, not modelling, dig? Never did I say that Bryce is on par with other programs in terms of 3d modelling.
Nobody uses it because it's not good for modelling. Okay that's great I just said why that's a stupid point to bring up moving on.

Quote:
However, if you don't mind wallowing in your 3d filth, Bryce is fine for you. If you use it for fun and not in seriousness (i.e. "My Bryce stuff is deeper than your Maya stuff because I am deep and abstract and all people who do abstract are are more intelligent than you"), it will amuse you sufficiently for some time.
Why would you even try to compare abstract art to the modelling industry? Why?

Quote:
If you ARE serious and use Bryce, I sure hope it's because you can't afford anything else. By saying that I mean I hope you WILL be able to afford something else, so you can stop using Bryce. If you use it and are serious about it and think it is better than all the other programs without trying them, then you are ignorant. If you use it, are serious about it, and are GOOD (in my opinion), then you are one of about 5-10 people (as I said before). If you are reading this, you probably don't fall under this category.
Well considering a multitude of people including RJ have told me that my renders don't look like typical Bryce/are better than his, I'm curious as to what you're talking about.

Quote:
Even so. Compare the BEST Brycer with the BEST Maya-er. No motherfucking contest.
Are you talking about abstract vs. modelling again? Shame.
If you're talking abstract, I've never seen a BEST Maya user or a Bryce user, and I don't know how close within the realm of possibility it is to find such a person. One person I really do like is RJ, and his stuff is definitely better than the more professional/popular Maya users I've seen. Feel free to prove me wrong. Remember this is opinion based.

Quote:
Bryce simply can't do some of the things Maya, Lightwave, 3ds, Softimage, etcetera can do. And besides, the best Brycers wisened up and started using other programs instead. The best Brycers are not the best at 3d. Period.
Radical Julian still uses Bryce and he's far more professional than Maya, Lightwave, 3DSM, etc. users. True, opinion. Seriously though, maybe you should take a closer look into his collection if you think at least he(because I'm assuming there are better Bryce users out there) isn't as good if not better than the others.

Quote:
I know that was not written well, but it was written in chunks, and I did not stop to edit any of it along the way. But the content should be pretty clear. If it is not, you are either stupid, I mistyped, or in denial.
Yeah and it was extremely redundant and I was wondering when it would end.
oh here we go~
Mwerp is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:08 PM   #82
tnyhwk900
FFR Player
FFR Simfile Author
 
tnyhwk900's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: in your pocket
Age: 30
Posts: 4,106
Send a message via AIM to tnyhwk900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by QreepyBORIS
Sounds like a cry for moderatorship. Whiner.
No. I don't expect to get modded ever, but I really wish I could have had it right there. -_-
__________________
tnyhwk900 is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:10 PM   #83
Mwerp
Banned
 
Mwerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,078
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnyhwk900
This is so out of hand. A 4-5 person flame war? I swear I wish I had mod powers so I could fucking LOCK this insane piece of shit because the mods aren't doing their job.
I think it's hilarious that it's like 5 on 1 and I still haven't lost.

The rest of your post just made me keep on laughing(not in a bad way) so I'm not goign to bother typing "haha" to each thing.

Quote:
really? because i felt like i was repeatedly saying "bad dog! No!" over and over and over again. Yet the dog keeps coming out and shitting on the carpet.
Ooh interesting. If you can't offer anything else then I'd say you're pretty much done with here.
Mwerp is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:12 PM   #84
Tasselfoot
Retired BOSS
Retired StaffFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Tasselfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Widget Heaven
Age: 36
Posts: 25,184
Send a message via AIM to Tasselfoot Send a message via MSN to Tasselfoot Send a message via Skype™ to Tasselfoot
Default

i gotta go with Tny. i feel like i'm listening to a looped recording. it goes from porgy to mwerp to aperson to mwerp to qreepy to mwerp and back again.

you all have opinions. no one is changing anyone else's opinions... if y'all would like to talk about this more, do it over AIM.

and, i didn't lock this earlier because it was mostly sensible debate, not senseless flaming. but, there really is no point in this going on and on. its a Mobius Strip.
__________________
RIP
Tasselfoot is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:13 PM   #85
Porgy
FFR Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 218
Send a message via AIM to Porgy Send a message via Yahoo to Porgy
Default

Quote:
Radical Julian still uses Bryce and he's far more professional than Maya, Lightwave, 3DSM, etc. users. True, opinion. Seriously though, maybe you should take a closer look into his collection if you think at least he(because I'm assuming there are better Bryce users out there) isn't as good if not better than the others.
WOOOOOOOAHHHH!!!!!! Jesus christ I almost fell out of my seat laughing there. Oh crap. That was like a 10.0 on the bulls**t scale. I'd like you to copy that into an email and forward it to every employee at Pixar, Industrial Light and Magic, PDI Dreamworks, and WETA Digital. Oh lordy....
__________________
I want fish tacos.....
Porgy is offline  
Old 10-21-2004, 06:13 PM   #86
soccr743
FFR Player
 
soccr743's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 549
Send a message via AIM to soccr743 Send a message via MSN to soccr743 Send a message via Yahoo to soccr743
Default

There is absolutely no comparison between Bryce and Maya, Lightwave, 3DS Max, and Softimage... Bryce renders do not look nearly as nice as any renders done in any of the programs listed above...

Also I truely agree with qreepy and everything he stated. Bryce is so freaking limited it is not even funny. If I were to ever start out in 3D then I would definitely look elsewhere even for a beginning program...

-----Soccr743-----

EDIT: No, I did not lock this thread. And whoever did please do not do that again. This thread is far from a spam war. Ok?
__________________
soccr743 is offline  
Old 10-22-2004, 08:17 AM   #87
Moogy
嗚呼
FFR Simfile Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: 車輪の国
Age: 31
Posts: 10,306
Send a message via AIM to Moogy
Default

Qreepy wins thread. ggnore
__________________
Plz visit my blog
Moogy is offline  
Old 10-22-2004, 12:42 PM   #88
Kilgamayan
Super Scooter Happy
FFR Simfile Author
 
Kilgamayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Location, Location.
Age: 36
Posts: 6,584
Send a message via AIM to Kilgamayan
Default

It's funny watching people argue that Bryce sucks when they either have no experience with it or suck with it.

From what I can tell, Qreepy has the only valid anti-Bryce opinion.
__________________
I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds.
Kilgamayan is offline  
Old 10-22-2004, 02:22 PM   #89
Squeek
let it snow~
FFR Veteran
 
Squeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 14,457
Send a message via AIM to Squeek
Default

Just to make it clear Kilga, I was arguing on the matter of whether or not what "Abstract Artists" do is classified as art or not. I can't make an opinion on the programs since I've not used any.

~Squeek
Squeek is offline  
Old 10-22-2004, 03:07 PM   #90
Kilgamayan
Super Scooter Happy
FFR Simfile Author
 
Kilgamayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Location, Location.
Age: 36
Posts: 6,584
Send a message via AIM to Kilgamayan
Default

Then the comment isn't direct at you.
__________________
I watched clouds awobbly from the floor o' that kayak. Souls cross ages like clouds cross skies, an' tho' a cloud's shape nor hue nor size don't stay the same, it's still a cloud an' so is a soul. Who can say where the cloud's blowed from or who the soul'll be 'morrow? Only Sonmi the east an' the west an' the compass an' the atlas, yay, only the atlas o' clouds.
Kilgamayan is offline  
Old 10-22-2004, 03:20 PM   #91
QreepyBORIS
FFR Player
 
QreepyBORIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: It is a mystery.
Age: 30
Posts: 7,454
Send a message via AIM to QreepyBORIS Send a message via MSN to QreepyBORIS
Default

...But I must say, Bryce is an okay bulwark against boredom.
__________________

Signature subject to change.

THE ZERRRRRG.
QreepyBORIS is offline  
Old 10-22-2004, 05:17 PM   #92
Mwerp
Banned
 
Mwerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,078
Default

Qreepy has nothing to say in response to my post directed towards him?
And people still say he wins the thread?
Fascinating.
Mwerp is offline  
Old 10-22-2004, 05:55 PM   #93
tnyhwk900
FFR Player
FFR Simfile Author
 
tnyhwk900's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: in your pocket
Age: 30
Posts: 4,106
Send a message via AIM to tnyhwk900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soccr743
This thread is far from a spam war.
What the fuck? Do you mean flame war? In which case you need to get a fucking clue and realize what flaming is. Flaming is against the rules, so this should've been locked.
__________________
tnyhwk900 is offline  
Old 10-22-2004, 06:42 PM   #94
Mwerp
Banned
 
Mwerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,078
Default

This is an intelligent discussion/debate. Don't derail it with complaints.
Mwerp is offline  
Old 10-22-2004, 10:47 PM   #95
QreepyBORIS
FFR Player
 
QreepyBORIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: It is a mystery.
Age: 30
Posts: 7,454
Send a message via AIM to QreepyBORIS Send a message via MSN to QreepyBORIS
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwerp
Qreepy has nothing to say in response to my post directed towards him?
And people still say he wins the thread?
Fascinating.
Looks like I missed [that train. But whatever, I'll respond tomorrow maybe, cause now its too late for me to make much sense, k.

And besides, you can't say Maya and company is worse than Bryce with out giving it a shot. That's plum silly.
__________________

Signature subject to change.

THE ZERRRRRG.
QreepyBORIS is offline  
Old 10-23-2004, 12:00 AM   #96
Porgy
FFR Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 218
Send a message via AIM to Porgy Send a message via Yahoo to Porgy
Default

im still laughing at the comment mwerp made about RJ's professionalism compared to professional maya/3dsm/xsi users. That was rich i must say. I had lunch with a friend over at cafeFX the other day and i mentioned that. He just shook his head.
__________________
I want fish tacos.....
Porgy is offline  
Old 10-23-2004, 12:12 AM   #97
Mwerp
Banned
 
Mwerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,078
Default

Quote:
im still laughing at the comment mwerp made about RJ's professionalism compared to professional maya/3dsm/xsi users.
Care to prove me wrong?
Mwerp is offline  
Old 10-23-2004, 12:45 AM   #98
Tasselfoot
Retired BOSS
Retired StaffFFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
Tasselfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Widget Heaven
Age: 36
Posts: 25,184
Send a message via AIM to Tasselfoot Send a message via MSN to Tasselfoot Send a message via Skype™ to Tasselfoot
Default

mwerp... would you mind posting some examples for what you are talking about? as an art n00b, i'm curious... you've said alot that Bryce isn't just about this and can do that... would you mind showing me some examples of its capabilities? i think it would also help you prove your case if you had some graphic examples.
__________________
RIP
Tasselfoot is offline  
Old 10-23-2004, 12:47 AM   #99
Porgy
FFR Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 218
Send a message via AIM to Porgy Send a message via Yahoo to Porgy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwerp
Quote:
im still laughing at the comment mwerp made about RJ's professionalism compared to professional maya/3dsm/xsi users.
Care to prove me wrong?
well to start, reference the entire collective works of Pixar. Just to start.....
__________________
I want fish tacos.....
Porgy is offline  
Old 10-23-2004, 12:50 AM   #100
Porgy
FFR Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 218
Send a message via AIM to Porgy Send a message via Yahoo to Porgy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasselfoot
mwerp... would you mind posting some examples for what you are talking about? as an art n00b, i'm curious... you've said alot that Bryce isn't just about this and can do that... would you mind showing me some examples of its capabilities? i think it would also help you prove your case if you had some graphic examples.
yeah, I'd kind of like to see Bryce simulate such advanced techniques as High Dynamic Range Imaging, photon simulation (or any example of realistic austics), sub surface scatter textures, genuine "final gather" renders, and global illumination. (I know for a fact it can't.) But just one of those, and I'll shut up.
__________________
I want fish tacos.....
Porgy is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution