Old 11-10-2007, 04:18 PM   #1
Branman123
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Default Eighteen Hours of English Lab

At my school, we are required to do eighteen hours of English Lab (It is just a workroom for resources like computers) in order to pass my English Class.

Ironically, in the same English class we are supposed to do an Argumentative essay:

My topic: English Lab Requirement

My Claim: It is unnecessary to require eighteen hours and doing so is not beneficial to English students.

Audience: Supportive Readers


----


The main purpose of this thread is to generate opposing and supporting ideas to the eighteen hour lab requirement policy. It would be extremely beneficial if you provide professional sources (.org, .edu, or .gov) to support your claim.

This essay has been highly suggested by the instructor to get other people's views on it. The difference with discussing it in person or on an online community is nothing.

My supporting details is as follows ^_^



My supporting evidence:

-The computer lab consists of an estimate of 40 computers. Making a requirement for all English classes (roughly 800 students) to have eighteen hours of in this lab is a waste of resources for the students who need those computers.

- There is nothing in the English lab that you can't find somewhere at home. Encyclopedias, dictionaries, and computers can all be found outside the lab.

- The way the system is set up, you are able to log into the main computer and walk out of the room and come back hours later. I have personally seen many people use this method to get their lab hours in. Is the school really trying to use dishonest methods?

- If someone gets an A in an English class but doesn't have the eighteen hours required. That student technically meets that classes standards and should be eligible to continue. Why is it fair for administration to fail you in that class for not using school resources?

- Math classes also has a lab, but it is not required to actually complete the hours.
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Old 11-10-2007, 04:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: Eighteen Hours of English Lab

Well for one, before any of us can give our own opinions or reasoning, you have to actually describe what you do in English Lab, what kind of work you are expected to complete, and what the rationale is behind the school position that it is mandatory.

Simply saying "We have to do this and I don't think we should, argue for or against" doesn't give us enough information to base an opinion on.

However, even without that information, I can have a number of reactions to your supporting evidence, as follows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branman123 View Post
My supporting evidence:

-The computer lab consists of an estimate of 40 computers. Making a requirement for all English classes (roughly 800 students) to have eighteen hours of in this lab is a waste of resources for the students who need those computers.
I'm assuming here that your english class lasts for one four-month semester, and that your school runs something close to an 8-hour day of operation, please correct me if either of those are wrong.

I count something in the area of 25,000 available hours during school time to access that lab. English lab seems to want to take up about 14,000 of those hours if there are actually 800 seperate people needing to do lab hours this semester. Assuming that you are able to access the lab before or after school on some number of days, you could probably cut that number down to 10 or 11,000 hours out of the 25,000 available.

If the lab serves enough other vital purposes that you can argue for 45% of the lab's time being spent on English being excessive, this is a reasonable point, otherwise it just isn't displacing enough hours in my opinoin, to call it a "waste of resources"


Quote:
- There is nothing in the English lab that you can't find somewhere at home. Encyclopedias, dictionaries, and computers can all be found outside the lab.
Again, this is a point that requires us to know a little more about the purpose of the English Lab than you've given us, but if you are actually just supposed to sit at a computer and scroll aimlessly through a dictionary or encyclopedia for 18 hours, then yes I would call it a waste to make you do so outside a library.

Quote:
- The way the system is set up, you are able to log into the main computer and walk out of the room and come back hours later. I have personally seen many people use this method to get their lab hours in. Is the school really trying to use dishonest methods?
No, the school is not trying to use dishonest methods, the students are ignoring the actual requirements of the assignement. Functionally, the students have work to do, and are cheating. Just because a rule is abused doesn't necessarily make it a bad rule, just one that needs better enforcement.

Quote:
- If someone gets an A in an English class but doesn't have the eighteen hours required. That student technically meets that classes standards and should be eligible to continue. Why is it fair for administration to fail you in that class for not using school resources?
Because the school board has set those requirements to pass, and thus those requirements need to be met to pass. I've taken classes with community service requirements, classes with attendence and participation requirements, classes with journal-keeping requirements. Trying to blame your school's administration for this would be inaccurate and bordering on an ad hominem attack. The curriculum in a given school is basically handed down from the school board. If you have a high mark, and insufficient lab hours, you have failed. You would have to go to the school board and make an appeal.

Quote:
- Math classes also has a lab, but it is not required to actually complete the hours.
Apples, meet oranges. Just because they use the same terms (Math Lab, English Lab) doesn't mean they are the same, or should be treated the same. Arguing against the mandatory nature of English Lab by pointing to the non-mandatory nature of Math Lab is bad logic, because you don't know the reasons why one is required and one is optional.
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Eighteen Hours of English Lab

First I would like to say I greatly appreciated your input, my main reason for creating this thread was not to compile a list of resources for my essay (it may have seemed to do that) but generate a lot of critical thinking and you have done that and more!

Yes, I really should have included some key details:

A semester is 18 weeks and the lab is open roughly 60 hours a week from Monday - Friday (13 hours a day Monday - Thursday and 8 hours on Friday)

The 800 students was a guess based on the amount of English classes there are. It could be more or less.

There are no given assignments for the lab. The main purpose of the lab is supposed to be a place where you can get your work done. For an example, the computers have Microsoft Word for your essays and you have an access to the internet and a printer.

I have completed 14 hours of my 18 hour requirement. Since my instructor does not give out any homework except essays, my primary use for this lab is for the computers. I have a word processing program, I have a printer, and I have the internet at home. The only reason why I would want to use a couple hours a day in this lab is just because it is required to pass the English class in the first place.

The main problem is that there are many students who feel the same way, obviously there are many people who are only in there because it is required. It is like taking up a handicap parking spot, when someone really needs to use the computer because they don't have one, it may not be available for them contradicting the entire purpose of the lab.

The school faculty try their best to catch people who log into the system and just leave the room. But many people that have the same perspective as me have nothing to lose to try it anyways. It is dishonest to do this method, but some students truly feel that they must do this rather than to sit head down on a desk for a couple hours a day.

Unfortunately, this is only my second day of this argumentative essay. A good essay will require the opposing views to my claim in which I have to talk to the dean of students to get his input. However, it is very evident with the uselessness of the lab, that the school must be getting some type of grant for students using the lab. Maybe they get X amount of money for having these a few computers with printing abilities and resources necessary for the students. If students were not using these resources, the school wouldn't have as much money allocated to their budget. Like I said, I don't know the reason and I definitely would not include random accusations in my essay in the account of being inaccurate!
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Eighteen Hours of English Lab

It seems to me that in order to argue that requiring students to do lab time is a waste of resources, you need to demonstrate that there are other people who need the lab who are missing out. (such as excessively long waiting periods for computers at certain times of the day, or certain times of semester).

I'm also supposing that the main arguments for having students complete lab time would be that it forces students to do more research, or spend more time on their work than they would otherwise. However, a student who gets good marks most likely has put in enough effort.
Another reason they might be getting you to do this is to fulfill some sort of use of technology/multimedia requirement. Every time I filled out a quality of teaching survey for a course, we had to rate how web materials and multimedia materials were used.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Eighteen Hours of English Lab

In my opinion that is a dumb idea overall. The requirement must be because A.) They want people to use their time wisely, B.) They want people to learn how to use the materials the school offers, or C.) Its just for a grant.

If it’s for reason A, then why have a lab? People who don’t use their time wisely fail; its stupid to try to force people to do work at a college level.

Reason B could be accomplished by requiring an assembly over proper use of school resources.

I don’t know about C, though. If it is a grant they are getting by forcing students to use their stuff... There’s nothing you can do about it aside from protesting or trying to get the word out, maybe by press or something. I know I wouldn’t come to a school that will require me to sit around or I fail just so they can make money... or maybe every school does that... I guess it depends on how you look at it. They're just doing it in a more obvious way, if that’s the case.

Of course A, B, and C are all positive points for having it as well; Just stupid ones that could easily be accomplished much more efficiently by other means. With the exception of C. Schools do need money, but I'm sure you've already paid them plenty.
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Old 11-15-2007, 04:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Eighteen Hours of English Lab

Don't underestimate the extent to which it could be "The state curriculum demands it" in which case there's not a thing anyone at your school's level of authority can do about it. We have mandatory literacy testing in 10th grade in my province, my province's seperate school board (There's a seperate catholic school board that is state-funded in addition to a public board here) has a mandatory 40 hours of community service in order to graduate. These aren't things that an individual school has any say over.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Eighteen Hours of English Lab

Hiya again.

I have talked to the head person at the main city campus and who is also part of the council that made the 18 hours a requirement.

The main theory behind it is that every good piece of work has editors, then she continued to describe major pieces of literature, important ones even, in which they had editors. At a community college level, there seems to be a doubt in which students know what is best for them. By creating this requirement, she continues to say, students will 'more' often rely on editors in the room such as the professors or other tutors.

Unfortunately, I still do not agree with that kind of perspective. The English Class I am taking is required for my degree. While it may be great help to ask the English Instructors who work there, I only have to do four different types of essays through-out the year and I am really not counting on asking one of the tutors in the room for help on my essay. On a similar view, I agree that making the requirement required will in fact get more people asking for help from the instructors that work there, but is it worth it?

The English Lab requirement has been doing nothing but creating stress for me this year in regards to getting the required hours completed. I know many others in which it has done the same. The positive sides of making this required is greatly outnumbered by the negative sides (of course this is only from how I see it).
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Eighteen Hours of English Lab

Okay so, the reasoning behind getting students to sit in the English lab is to get them to use tutoring resources such as an editor or instructor?

In my opinion I don't think it's necessary to force a student to do that. If people don't want to overachieve and use the editors to get themselves a better paper why force them? If they can get a C on a paper and feel happy about it why push them if they don't want to be pushed?
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Old 11-16-2007, 03:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: Eighteen Hours of English Lab

Well, by that logic, if I'm happy with my current level of knowledge in any field, I shoudln't have to take any courses in that subject at all. Highschool and College both have strict curriculums in a given major as to what courses you need to take, because the consistancy of degrees granted by that institution are predicated on the idea that everyone with degree X has taken courses A B and C, so that you don't have to individually analyze the transcript of every graduate you are considering for a job.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Eighteen Hours of English Lab

My English Teacher who doesn't work in the lab is against the idea of bothering people for help, but she asked me to question the area of payment for the editors, tutors, and instructors in the lab.

So, one of my other important sources, an actual English Instructor that works in the lab, says they get a hefty pay to sit in there and go around offering help. While I won't mention the price, it may not be even believable what I say, but she was really hesitant to mention her pay.

I have a feeling they know that if they continue to make the lab requirement a requirement, the more effective the editors look when helping students, they continue to have high pay. I can almost guarantee with the number of interviews I have done with this one essay that if the pay was around $10.00 an hour instead of $45.00, there would definitely be heavier resistance to keeping that lab requirement.

With simple logic:

1) Reducing the pay would create the Editor's job less demand.

2) Less demand on the job cause less editors to work there

3) Reduced editors with an amazing amount of students are in there causes more stress on the editors especially for the low pay.

4) Editors get mad and eventually get to a point where it is debatable for students to be required to go into the lab for 18 hours just to pass their class.

5) One unit is knocked off the English course and split up into another course that you can take for lab hours and that one unit to reduce the amount of students to come into the lab.

While the above ideas are only based on my theories, putting that in my essay would definitely hurt my score because they are opinions. What I need to do now is re-find that director person I talked to almost a week ago and ask her, "How would the requirement be different if your pay wasn't worth it?"
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