Old 04-21-2004, 11:28 AM   #41
Jam930
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i think it was actually Serbia who caused the war. After much serbian propaganda and fanatacism was spead throughout europe, including austria-ruled Bosnia, Serbian "terrorists" killed the ARchduke francis ferdinand of Austria, the heir to the throne and his wife, and then when austria asked permission to investigate within serbia to discover who was responsible, serbia didnt agree to it. Germany said they'd back up austria's decision, with their "blank check" and so austria declared war on serbia after they had failed to reach austria's ultimatum.

i studied all this a couple weeks ago in Modern World History

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Old 04-21-2004, 11:30 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by perfect_fat
Yeah, the United States opted out of the League of Nations because the senate refused to ratify the Treaty of Versailles.

Since the United States, the great protector of the world, didn't recognize the treaty of Versailles, they did not help enforce it. Lack of enforcement of the T.O.V. led to WW2.
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Old 04-21-2004, 08:39 PM   #43
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Why should we let the UN in? We are officially the strongest country in the world, and we also get an added power because no one can know how powerful we really are. So we do have something to hide: a huge arsenal of weapons and unknowns. Besides, we have the role of protectors of the righteous, so why would we be the opposite?
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:49 PM   #44
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We have no obligation to let UN inspectors in because the UN did not demand it. The UN passed many resolutions over nearly a decade demanding Iraq reveal its weapons programs, because it was an unstable threatening nation, and they even unanimously passed Resolution 1441, where it calls for military action should Iraq refuse to comply.

The UN is a silly organization anyway.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:08 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by hitokiri_diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfect_fat
Yeah, the United States opted out of the League of Nations because the senate refused to ratify the Treaty of Versailles.

Since the United States, the great protector of the world, didn't recognize the treaty of Versailles, they did not help enforce it. Lack of enforcement of the T.O.V. led to WW2.
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Moron. I said the US was in the UN and Jam disagreed.

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Old 04-22-2004, 12:12 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chardish
We have no obligation to let UN inspectors in because the UN did not demand it. The UN passed many resolutions over nearly a decade demanding Iraq reveal its weapons programs, because it was an unstable threatening nation, and they even unanimously passed Resolution 1441, where it calls for military action should Iraq refuse to comply.

The UN is a silly organization anyway.
Iraq was complying. They found those missiles remember? And crushed them with bulldozers. They were not a danger with inspectors inside the country, and Mr. Blix and his buddies were recalled so the US could bomb Iraq.

The UN is a silly organization? That's typical of something an american hawk would say. It's the only international forum we have where almost every country can have a voice. Without that, it's just the US and China having a pissing contest.
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Old 04-22-2004, 02:45 PM   #47
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Hrmmm... just for fun.... who would win in a pissing contest between the US and China?

This may be a little late, but somone said earlier that Bush started the war for oil "to fuel his economy." I would ask you, if the President of the US can only be in office 4 or 8 years, then how can it be "HIS economy?" Of course, no one ever notices that if the US economy gets better, the world economy gets better too, and that includes Iraq, because Iraq is part of the world now too.

The real problem in Iraq is the radical Islamists. NOT ISLAM!! Please no one tell me Im a muslim basher; Im not. They dont want America in Iraq because they want to create a Muslim state. Some might say,"well if thats what the Iraqis want...." But most of the radical Islamists in Iraq are Saudi, Iranian, Syrian, and various other non-Iraqi arabs.

By making attacks on high profile targets and causing unrest, they can turn the Iraqi people on America by say.. shooting at Americans from inside mosques. Now tape the Americans defending themselves and call it an unprovoked attack, and viola! unrest, death, and falling support for America.

My point is that it wouldnt be going so badly if it wasnt for radical Islamist factions, so Bush is not the main problem by a long shot.
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Old 04-22-2004, 04:33 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
The real problem in Iraq is the radical Islamists.
And they say the problem is the Americans so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous
My point is that it wouldnt be going so badly if it wasnt for radical Islamist factions, so Bush is not the main problem by a long shot.
That's not quite accurate. It seems like the majority of insurgents are religious extremists (Sadr's supporters etc), but a lot of the fighters are just citizens who want the US out and don't support Sadr. And probably still a few Saddam supporters kicking around (don't ask me why they have any allegiance to that scumbag).
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:44 PM   #49
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That's wrong. The majority of fighters are NOT "just citizens." 99% of them are religious extremists, terrorists, Saddam's thugs, people who follow the above, or your average psycho/suicidal killers. The only time "just citizens" have been involved was when they were hostages. Just about every other time has been the forementioned.
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Old 04-23-2004, 05:32 PM   #50
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*sigh*
If the world would just learn that they have to do what us Americans want, everything would work out fine...
(thats sarcasm for the hyper-sensitive and intellectually challenged)

But seriously, sometimes I wish we could just ignore the whole world and be isolationist again even for a little while. But last time we tried that WW2 happened...

For those of you here who arent American, let me educate you a little bit on the American psyche. Im talking about America in general, not individuals.

1)We see ourselves as the protector of the weak.

When we see someone oppressed, it REALLY REALLY pisses us off. Our country was born of a revolution against an unpopular government, so when we see oppressed people, we tend to see ourselves. That is also why Americans seem so confused when things go wrong; it was SUPPOSED to be just like the American Revolution. Really, we just got lucky that there were leaders like John Adams, Ben Franklin, and good ol' George Washington who weren't extremists, but a lot of Americans don't realize that most people aren't like our forefathers.

2)Americans are very time conscious.

We want it done, and we want it done NOW. This came about more recently, and isnt as ingrained, but is perhaps as powerful as the previous thing. This leads us to tend to rush things that we shouldn't, so we can get it done now and move on. This might really be a trait in most modern countries, so correct me if this is just as prevalent wherever you are.

3)In America, the economy is THE most important thing.

This came about because of the cold war. It wasn't really a contest of governments, but of economic systems; capitalism and communism. Maybe this is just a carryover and will go away soon, I don't really know, but maybe not. The cold war did last for quite a while in American terms, remember, we are barely older than 200 years, and the cold war lasted for about 50.

Thats all I can think of anyways. Maybe there is more, but I grew up around it, so I might not notice it. I hope this give any non-Americans out there some insight into why we do what we do. Maybe I have a point, maybe not.

Maybe I ramble, maybe not. lol
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