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Old 03-16-2007, 03:25 PM   #1
coberst
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Default I am Somebody!

I am Somebody!

If I decide that I am not somebody I break down like a 48 Chevy. When that great newsreel always running in my head feeds me with constant negative images of myself, I give up. To lose self-esteem is to lose the nourishment that provides the energy needed by a hero. I am a hero because I make a vital contribution to world-life.

Why do many youth in the inner-cities commit violent and criminal acts?--that is one way, perhaps the only way, to be a hero. Why do many youth walk boldly into enemy fire?—to be a hero. Why does a youth strap on explosives and blow up her self and everyone around her?—heroism once again.

Why does a parent delight in the accomplishments of their offspring—such is the parents’ means for being heroes. Why does a CEO demand an income of ten million dollars from her corporation—so everyone will recognize what a great hero she is. Perhaps corporations need to be heroes also and giving their CEO more money is the corporation’s means for self-esteem.

The most important thing a culture can provide to its citizens is a means for becoming a hero in a way that benefits life (good) rather than death (evil). “Its [culture’s] task, in other words, is to provide the individual with the conviction that he is an object of primary value in a world of meaningful action.”

The ego must find a means to navigate the world of customs, rules, and ideas in such a way as to eliminate anxiety; to do this the individual must choose actions that her comrades praise instead of blame.


Quotes from “The Birth and Death of Meaning” by Ernest Becker

Questions for discussion

The books on human sciences I have been reading speak of good and life, and evil and death, as being synonymous. Do you find that characterization is satisfactory?

Do corporations seek self-esteem? Is ‘corporation is person’ an apt metaphor?
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Old 03-16-2007, 03:54 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coberst
The books on human sciences I have been reading speak of good and life, and evil and death, as being synonymous. Do you find that characterization is satisfactory?
Good and evil are points of view. I'm going to use hypothetical situations to demonstrate this point.

First, let's say Robert is a member of a group of people whose sole purpose is to eradicate all forms of fauna (non-plant life) in a rainforest. To Robert, a deer wandering through the rainforest represents a threat to everything he knows, because he knows only to eliminate such a creature. To Robert, it would be evil to let the animal roam free; good to kill it. Therefore, Robert associates good with death and evil with life.

Now, let's say Jessica is a member of a group of people whose sole purpose is to protect and uphold all forms of fauna in a rainforest. To Jessica, a deer wandering through the rainforest is a representation of a job well done on her part, because as far as Jessica is concerned, if the deer is still alive, she's doing her job. To Jessica, it would be evil to kill the animal, and good to let the animal roam free. Therefore, Jessica associates good with life and evil with death.

Now, to answer your question using my point. No, I do not believe that characterization is satisfactory, because when we take into account the possibilities of everyone's points of view, we see that when they differ, we get a completely different characterization than what we originally had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coberst
Do corporations seek self-esteem? Is ‘corporation is person’ an apt metaphor?
As for the first question, I think that the individuals that make up a corporation seek self-esteem, so it would be reasonable to say that a corporation as a whole seeks self-esteem. I doubt that anyone in said corporation would like to see the whole place burn to the ground, and if there is no self-esteem, no positive morale, then that is likely to happen.

Sorry, but I can't really help with the second question... I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "corporation is person".
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Old 03-16-2007, 04:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

I do not think it is about heroism, more about being the best at somethings.

Companies compete against each other to see who is the best -- I would not call this heroic at all.

Quote:
Why does a youth strap on explosives and blow up her self and everyone around her?—heroism once again.
They blow themselves up for their beliefs. Yes, being looked at by their own people is a side affect, but the main cause is their beliefs.

Quote:
Why does a parent delight in the accomplishments of their offspring—such is the parents’ means for being heroes.
If the parent always told the kid that he sucks at life, it will create resentment between the two and/or cause the kid to become depressed/ emotionally unstable.

Heroism is not the main cause for most of the things you posted, coberst. They are side affects at best.
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Old 03-16-2007, 04:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomPscho
Companies compete against each other to see who is the best
I disagree. Entirely.

Companies compete against each other to make money, which would also be the entire reason behind starting a company in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomPscho
Heroism is not the main cause for most of the things you posted, coberst.
Most of the things coberst posted came from a book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coberst
Quotes from “The Birth and Death of Meaning” by Ernest Becker
Also, did you even see the last part of his post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coberst
Questions for discussion

The books on human sciences I have been reading speak of good and life, and evil and death, as being synonymous. Do you find that characterization is satisfactory?

Do corporations seek self-esteem? Is ‘corporation is person’ an apt metaphor?
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Old 03-16-2007, 04:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

I agree with you RandomPscho, but the way you put it, you're saying that companies are motivated by self-esteem, since that's basically what wanting to be the best is. Ego.

But really, corporations do things for money. They will do pretty much anything they can to maximize profits. This priority is above all else, including self-esteem and 'heroism'. It's hard to imagine a scenario where a company could maximize profits without trying to be the best, but if it were possible, you know they would do it.


Edit: Ninja'd. Ah well.
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

Sorry, best to me when talking about a company means more money, more successful.


Johnny, ALL of his threads are quotes from books. And yes, I saw the questions. The first one he already posted (although worded differently) and the second I answered half of.
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

Well I'm not familiar with coberst, apparently. I apologize.
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:51 PM   #8
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Random

I have been studying some of the human sciences for a few months and have been struck regarding the great emphasis they seem to place upon this hero concept.

Last edited by coberst; 03-16-2007 at 05:52 PM.. Reason: correct mistake
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Old 03-16-2007, 06:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

No wonder, quotes from books. Figures.

Provide me proof and Coberst will be banned.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

Wha? He never denied that they were quotes from books. And he still posts discussion questions from his own mind too.

He's not a bot, and he's not plagiarizing... he just has an unusual style of communicating on forums.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

Unusual? More like unpleasant.
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Old 03-17-2007, 05:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Unusual? More like unpleasant.
Apathy is often more pleasant than thinking about important things and in becoming a responsible adult prepared to pass on to the next generations a planet as good as that we all received at birth.
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Old 03-17-2007, 07:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

Coberst, I think you missed the point. Chrissi is certainly not apathetic about adult issues... in fact, she's one of the most outspoken critical thinkers we have at this forum.

She's not saying the issues themselves are unpleasant, but that your tendency to speak in a very roundabout and incomprehensible way is.
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Old 03-17-2007, 09:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: I am Somebody!

Learning a new domain of knowledge without a teacher to hold hands is unpleasant but it is essential after our school days are over if we wish to grow intellectually.
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Old 03-17-2007, 09:54 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by coberst View Post
Learning a new domain of knowledge without a teacher to hold hands is unpleasant but it is essential after our school days are over if we wish to grow intellectually.
Leading a new domain of deceit without a teacher to hold hands, is in fact unpleasant but also essential. After all the school days and dust has settled in. This acquired trait does indeed come handy in many ways.

Last edited by Maid; 03-17-2007 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:24 PM   #16
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Learning a new domain of knowledge without a teacher to hold hands is unpleasant but it is essential after our school days are over if we wish to grow intellectually.
You are on a quest to better understand the purpose of life, but let me give you my view on it; the purpose of life is not to grow intellectually, it could if you make it so, but for others, it may not be the same case. You are trying to force your way of life onto other preaching about your ways, you are no better than the hard-core evolutionist or hard-core creationist.

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WHEN do you think people die...?
When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
IT'S WHEN A PERSON IS FORGOTTEN...!!!
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