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Old 02-26-2007, 03:33 PM   #1
coberst
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Default Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

How can I know what I do not know? How can I trace that boundary between knowledge and ignorance?

In the dialogue “Apology” Plato writes about Socrates while in the dungeon just before drinking the hemlock that the citizens of Athens condemned him to be executed.

In the dungeon shortly before drinking from the hemlock cup Socrates spoke to his followers. He spoke about the accusations against him at the trial. He said that the sworn indictment against him was “Socrates is guilty of needless curiosity and meddling interference, inquiring into things beneath Earth and in the Sky…” Socrates further adds that he is accused of teaching the people of Athens, to which Socrates vehemently denies that he is a teacher. He points out that in matters of wisdom he has only a small piece of that territory; the wisdom that he does have is the wisdom not to think he knows what he does not know. Socrates conjectures that he has the wisdom to recognize the boundary of his present knowledge and to search for that knowledge that he does not have. “So it seems at any rate I am wiser in this one small respect: I do not think I know what I do not.”

For Socrates a necessary component of wisdom is to comprehend what one is ignorant of.

Am I wise? Do I know what I am ignorant of? I certainly know that I am ignorant of astronomy and psychology. There are many things about which it is obvious to me that I am ignorant of. Are there things about which I am not even aware of my ignorance? Are there matters about which I think I am knowledgeable of but which I am, in fact, ignorant of?

When I ask myself these questions I become conscious of a great number of things about which I am ignorant. Does this mean I am like Socrates in this matter? I do not think so. Socrates is speaking about two types of ignorance about which most people are unconscious of.

I think that Socrates is speaking of our ‘burden of illusion’. People are unconscious of the superficiality of much that they think they know and they are unconscious of a vast domain of knowledge that is hidden from the non critical thinker.


The uncritical mind has no means for discovering these illusions. CT (Critical Thinking) is the keystone for discovering these illusions. The Catch-22 here is how can one develop a critical mind when they are deluded into thinking they have a critical mind?

When our educational system has not taught our citizens how to think critically how can our citizens ever pull themselves out of this deep hole of illusion?
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

I'm trying to extract what your post means, but I find it rather difficult. Are you a philosophy major?!
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmah View Post
I'm trying to extract what your post means, but I find it rather difficult. Are you a philosophy major?!
Wow, you realize it does not take a genius to comprehend such things. If you have difficulty understanding this matter then perhaps you should check some of the other topics around here for one you do have some comprehension of and if you cannot find any, then perhaps this is not the place for you.

In any case, this is a very interesting read. There is a quote from Confucius that summarizes this quite nicely in my opinion "When you know a thing, to hold that you know it; and when you do not know a thing, to allow that you do not know it - this is knowledge." That is to say, you are very ignorant to think you know something perfectly well. Any wise person will tell you that he knows little about a variety of things, but the comprehension of that little bit is essential to a greater understanding and a more vast array of information. Bertrand Russell had this to say, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

Huh?
Why do you do this?
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yeah.
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Old 03-1-2007, 12:16 AM   #5
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

lol seriously.

some kind of bot.
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Old 03-1-2007, 12:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

Coberst takes the phrase "copy and paste" to a new level...
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Old 03-1-2007, 12:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

After about 10 minutes of careful analyzation and about an hour of looking at this thread on and off, I finally found where the question is.

His speech is riddled with questions that aren't the main question and the main question itself isn't worded well and has a ton of jargon in it.

Aside from that, humans can't pull ourselves out of "said hole", we are stuck down there and it is difficult to see all the unconscious things that we do. Others can, but the person themselves cannot.

~Tsugomaru
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Old 03-1-2007, 04:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmah View Post
I'm trying to extract what your post means, but I find it rather difficult. Are you a philosophy major?!

I am a retired engineer and I also have an MA in philosophy. But primarily I am a self-actualizing self-learner and have been for 25 years.
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Old 03-1-2007, 10:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

Well, I've got a question for you, then. Why did you come to a community where people have difficulty even responding to your questions? I'm sure there are many philosophy-based forums. I know you already visit others, but why did you choose to come here?

No offense or anything. I'm just curious.
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Old 03-1-2007, 11:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

Board with a lot of philosophy topics:
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/


Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstrike0159 View Post
Wow, you realize it does not take a genius to comprehend such things. If you have difficulty understanding this matter then perhaps you should check some of the other topics around here for one you do have some comprehension of and if you cannot find any, then perhaps this is not the place for you.
Look, it's not necessary to make that sharp remark! I am making an attempt to read his posts, but I won't give up altogether just because the posts are elaborate. Watch what you're saying.
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Old 03-1-2007, 11:32 AM   #11
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmah View Post
Board with a lot of philosophy topics:
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/




Look, it's not necessary to make that sharp remark! I am making an attempt to read his posts, but I won't give up altogether just because the posts are elaborate. Watch what you're saying.
Well of course i could say that your original post was not necessary seeing as how you could have just used the PM system. Fact is, too many people wander in here and when they are suprized when they see something they dont understand they make unnecessary posts along the lines of "omg, I DONT UNDERSTAND, YOU ARE AMAZINGLY SMART!!" and to me this is the impression i got from your post.

Along the lines of the topic, i noticed something else. It is interesting to know that most people who think of how well versed they are in the world because of their knowledge are infact crossing the line of ignorance. To this i would just say that there is no definite line between the two but a good estimation as to when you cross the line into ignorance from the knowledge side is thinking you know enough about any one subject to have no need to learn more.
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Old 03-1-2007, 01:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

The simple answer is that a sizeable population of the human race will never throw off even some of their illusions. Efforts to reform education typically only devalue education, because they try to lower the bar until anyone can participate.

It seems counterintuitive, but humility is the starting point for education. Efforts to build confidence before it is due are actually quite harmful. Confidence should come with experience, if at all.

It bears mentioning however that thinking ability is not the driving force for success that it is said to be, there are a large number of ways to "success" that are more easily and consistently obtained.
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Old 03-1-2007, 02:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: Boundary between my knowledge and my ignorance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToshX View Post
Well, I've got a question for you, then. Why did you come to a community where people have difficulty even responding to your questions? I'm sure there are many philosophy-based forums. I know you already visit others, but why did you choose to come here?

No offense or anything. I'm just curious.

I try to introduce important ideas to whomever has the ability to comprehend the ideas. I am certain the members of this forum have that capacity. If you can comprehend all of the skills, knowledge, and charater traits required for Critical Thinking you can certainly comprehend my posts.
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