Old 02-2-2007, 06:09 PM   #41
Tisthammerw
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 60
Default Re: "god" & "Aliens" one and the same?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragula219 View Post
There is no transversal involved. That's what you don't comprehend.
There most certainly is a traversal in an infinite past. In an infinite past, the universe must traverse an infinite number of years to reach the present. Do you deny this? If so, why?


Quote:
Infinity is not a Number, it is an Idea.
Infinity is not a real number (in the mathematical sense) though there are transfinite quantities in mathematics (e.g. aleph-null, which is the cardinality of natural numbers). In any case none of this changes the logic of the circumstances. An infinite traversal is still impossible.


Quote:
Just because an infinite transversal is impossible does not mean that nothing is infinite.
I never said otherwise. However, that an infinite traversal is impossible does mean that an infinite past is impossible, because an infinite past implies an infinite number of years to be traversed before the present is reached. This is impossible.


Quote:
You cannot transverse time, because time is INFINITE
Quite true, but an infinite past REQUIRES the traversal of an infinite region of time to reach the present. Thus by your own statement here, an infinite past cannot exist.

What you said also holds true with a universe of a finite age (say 10 to 20 billion years old). The universe gets older and older without limit, but it never becomes infinitely old, because an infinite region of time cannot be traversed.

Count Int cannot reach infinity, and Joe Walker cannot traverse an infinite distance. Traversing an infinite number of years to reach the present is even worse because the traversal cannot even get started. It is like trying to jump out of a bottomless pit (as J.P. Moreland put it).


Quote:
There is no "starting" point as a time reference
In an infinite past there is no starting point, true. But not even being able to get started only seems to make things worse for traversing an infinite region, not better.


Quote:
I'm not saying you can't believe in god and a finite universe. I couldn't care less about your beliefs, but to say that an infinite universe is impossible because you can't understand the concept of infinity is ignorant and, well let's face it, wrong.
Again, I am not saying an infinite past is impossible because I can't understand the concept of infinity. Quite the contrary, it is because of my understanding of infinity that leads me to believe that traversing an infinite region is impossible.
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