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#81 | ||
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FFR Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 32
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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you ever tried.
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#82 | |
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FFR Simfile Author
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It is fairly simple to figure out the escape velocity of a black hole, actually. No light can escape beyond a certain point of the black hole (which is why we can't see them. They must be detected using other methods). This is arbitrarily called the event horizon, and since no light passes beyond this point the escape velocity at this point is the speed of light. And no, the escape velocity at the event horizon is not twice that. It could be any number of times that beyond the event horizon, but at the event horizon it is c. I am not going to get into why this is exactly, but if you think about it logically for a minute or two you can probably figure it out, since it's pretty basic stuff. Remember, a black hole is just a ridiculously strong gravitational field.
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#83 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 159
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And how do you know its not twice the speed of light? You dont know anything. Stop acting like you do. Just because you say its not doesnt mean its true. Yes it has to at "least" be the speed of light but that doesnt mean it is the speed of light. Im sorry this concept is way over your head. how are black holes even related to going back in time. If it did take you somewhere it would just be somewhere else in space, not somewhere else in time. Last edited by Kekiz; 01-14-2007 at 05:26 PM.. |
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#84 | ||
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York
Age: 29
Posts: 504
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A huge amount of time dilation occurs around black holes.
The event horizon by definition is the spot where the escape velocity is equal to that of the speed of light. It is not twice the speed of light because that would not fit the definition of an event horizon!!! The closer you get to the center of the black hole, the more velocity you would need to escape. It is like a gradient. For this reason there must be a spot in which the escape velocity equals the speed of light, the event horizon! Get over it kekiz, please. It is not over anyone's head as long as you actually think about what you are saying. Quote:
Last edited by RandomPscho; 01-14-2007 at 06:41 PM.. |
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#85 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 159
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You still totally miss the point that there is no way to know that. When you go to a black whole and measure the escape velocity yourself then come back and tell me. For now there is no way to measure that. You yourself need to get over it.
you still dont even know if black holes are real yet you know so much about them. Reminds me of religion. |
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#86 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New York
Age: 29
Posts: 504
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Since you refuse to look up the definition of theory, I will for you.
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Yes black holes are a theory. They explain, in a logical sense, the reason why some things are getting sucked into and why light is bending or even disappearing around objects that cannot be seen in space. Even if they do not exist, as you might like to believe, attributes of an imaginary one would still be able to be logically found. If it sucks in through gravitational force, the closer you are, the higher the gravitational force. Thus the amount of force needed to escape the gravitational pull would be relative to the distance from the center of the pull, forming a gradient. They cannot be seen, so light cannot escape them, but there is a point around the black where we do see light again. This spot where the light stops is the event horizon. And, then, at this point the escape velocity would be equal to that of the speed of light. Last edited by RandomPscho; 01-14-2007 at 08:34 PM.. |
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#87 | |||||
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FFR Simfile Author
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And incase you havn't read your own posts, you bare not a shred of it other than irrelevancies and proving that you have not done any research on this topic whatsoever. I am not here to babysit you or give you a class on astrophysics and black holes. Why don't you go do some research into where this information is derived before tooting your horn about how noone is able to show that anything is true. Quote:
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"you still dont even know if black holes are real yet you know so much about them. Reminds me of religion." Here's a bunch of philosophical nonsense if I've ever seen any. Really, just like you don't know kenya is a place because you havn't been there? So i'm just going to ignore all evidence that shows that there are extreme gravitational fields in this universe. Heard of Stephen Hawking? He's famous for a reason. Quote:
They're not, really. The thread has gone off topic. There are some purely hypothetical ideas about blackholes and time travel, but nothing scientific (not that time travel is really scientific to begin with). I'm going to take one more stab at this. Maybe I'll ask, are you familiar with calculus? Have you heard of the intermediate value theorem? I could actually produce a very nice proof using it. The gravitational field intensity could be plotted by a function in time. Imagine this. Now then, I know that at some point, the field produces an EV less than light. I also know that at some point, the field produces an EV more than light. From here, we can deduce since the function is continuous, there HAS TO EXIST A POINT somewhere between these two where it is EXACTLY the speed of light. It just cannot be denied. Doing so is just plain old ignoring common sense. This is the Schwarzchild Radius, and there are equations to explain this. Then from here we can arbitrarily define the event horizon to where space is no longer visible.
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Last edited by Reach; 01-14-2007 at 10:03 PM.. |
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#88 | |
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FFR Player
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There are a few reasons why people think blackholes relate to time travel. One of which is when someone hears about its gravitational force and thinks, "hey, maybe time cant escape it either" or "if its so strong maybe it can pull you into the past/futre" both of which are an idiots point of view. I always though of black holes as what reach described in that there is a different gravitational pull on different parts on your body instead of it compressing you into a cube. I heard a concept once that sounds stupid but it was actually an interesting thought (even if it did have no scientific thought behind it). It said that (relating to the living in a black hole idea, and also the thought of a black hole compressing objects) a black hole could possibly compress massive amounts of matter into the tiny sphere which then exploded and created the big bang which expanded the universe inside of the black hole itself. Although it can be counted as an illconceived though it is the first idea i have heard explaining how that sphere got there to begin with. Of course you could just say that with the properties of black holes that we know of now say that that kind of expansion would be very much improbable (especially because it would be extremely hard to have a center point of gravity inside a rapidly changing part of space that has a gravitational force greater than any others found). One other thing related to time, if it ever was possible to go into the past dont you think the things you would have changed would not have happened to begin with merely because you would have stopped yourself or that event? It is becoming more and more than apparent to me that the only thing close to an idea of time travel would be to move a group of atoms so fast that time would SEEM to be going slower around them. Isnt that part of the theory of relativity anyway? |
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#89 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 159
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Its funny how much time you spend writing nonsense. You have no evidence for anything and just make up everything and say there is evidence.
Its like when people say there is evidence of god and then never show any and just use that as their arguement. At any rate you still missed what i said so good game reach. Quit wasting your time trying to prove something that you cant get evidence for. Sure there has to be a point somewhere on a black hole thats the speed of light but you dont know where and if it goes beyond that. The only information you have to go on is that its strong enough to pull in light. That doesnt mean anything. Going on your style of reasoning i heard there was evidence that blackholes arnt holes and are just extremley dense matter that has a gravitational feild thats extremley powerful. Sure that might be true but what evidence. There is no evidence. I just made that up. |
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#90 | |
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FFR Player
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Incase you were wondering, the little theory i posted was just from one of the friends i have deep conversations with and like i said it has ABSOLUTELY no sort of reasoning to support it. Also, yes you could come up with something off the top of your head and call it good but eventually you will be proven wrong unless it is on a topic in which you cant be proven wrong. However this is not the case because whether or not you are willing to accept the evidence given doesnt matter because ignorant people are still proven wrong even if they dont think so. One last thing, whats that about writing about nonesence? I believe that you are the one who trying to prove people wrong with your own reasonings and not by any sort of proof. Rather, the other people have given ideas that have actually been known to produce even the slightest amounts of evidence in its case as opposed to your unsupported thoughts on the subject. |
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#91 | ||
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FFR Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 32
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Quote:
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We know for a fact that light cannot escape a black hole at a certain point. Let's call the distance from the black hole to this locus of points x. Therefore, at a distance x, light cannot escape a black hole. Therefore, the escape velocity of a black hole is greater than the speed of light. Not equal to, since if it were, then light would stand still. Now, take distance x/2. At distance x/2, light cannot escape a black hole either, because it is inside the event horizon. Therefore, the escape velocity of a black hole is still greater than the speed of light. Now, according to Newton's law of universal gravitational, if we cut the distance between two points in half, we quadruple the force between them. (From here). Therefore, at a distance x/2 from the black hole, the escape velocity is at least 4 times the speed of light. Now, since light cannot escape a black hole at a distance x, it cannot escape light at a distance x-c (where 0 <= c <= x/2). This assumption falls logically from Newton's law of universal gravitation. Now, since light cannot escape the black hole at these distances, and according to Newton's law of universal gravitation, the escape velocity of a black hole as you approach the black hole is increasing (therefore, it is continuous). Therefore, according to the Intermediate Value Theorem, there is a distance k (between x and x/2) such that the escape velocity is twice that of the speed of light. There is one flaw, this distance x yields an escape velocity twice that of the speed of light. Then, we double the distance x. If this still yields an escape velocity twice that of the speed of light, we continue doubling. If we are at the point where the escape velocity is always twice that of the speed of light, we have a contradiction (we wouldn't exist), therefore at some distance x from the black hole, the escape velocity must be equal to twice the speed of light.
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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you ever tried.
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#92 |
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FFR Player
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A. We know for SURE that black holes exist. How? Telescopes are so advanced that they can read radioactive signitures in the cosmos, and sometimes they find points in the cosmos where EVERYTHING (this includes light, particles, all forms of mass INCLUDING atoms) is being pulled to a point in the universe. When everything reaches that point it dissapears. Using a little common sense and some advanced mathmatical equations, scientists have determined for a FACT that black holes exist and their gravitaional force is so powerful that radiation traveling at the speed of light is pulled into it.
B. Scientists can measure the gravitational force, by determining the different speeds and masses of objects going towards a black hole. They have shown that even if we were able to go 930000 miles per second (which is impossible) which is five times the speed of light, we still would not be able to escape the gravitational pull of a black hole.
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"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." People demand their freedom of speech, so as to avoid their freedom of thought. Keep the freedom you possess inherently, before someone else attempts to take it from you. |
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#93 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 32
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Quote:
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you ever tried.
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#94 |
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FFR Player
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http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/bh_obsv.html
http://hubblesite.org/explore_astronomy/black_holes/ http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast12jan_1.htm http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/feat...oct/blackhole/ These are urls that prove black holes exist. That fact was seen on the nasa channel. I wish I could quote the person, but I dont remember his name. ![]() Edit: The nasa channel has stated that fact, and if you watch the discovery channel they have had an episode that stated that fact.
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"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." People demand their freedom of speech, so as to avoid their freedom of thought. Keep the freedom you possess inherently, before someone else attempts to take it from you. Last edited by 8Shade8; 01-15-2007 at 10:10 PM.. |
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#95 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 32
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Quote:
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you ever tried.
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#96 |
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FFR Player
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Yeah, that fact was stated on the discovery channel a few weeks ago. The episode was about the ten ways that our planet may be destroyed. Number 8 was a black hole randomly making it's way into our solar system. Number 1 was gloabal warming. I will try and find the URL for the episode for you, it may be on the internet...
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__________________
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." People demand their freedom of speech, so as to avoid their freedom of thought. Keep the freedom you possess inherently, before someone else attempts to take it from you. |
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#97 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13
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Default Re: Turning back time
Quote: Originally Posted by DJoel View Post All right. I've been thinking about... what if I had a sort of magic clock or something that I could turn back time with? Would I dare to use it then... 'Cause I don't think you can "remember the future". I mean, if I turn back time, I wouldn't remember that I had done that. And then I would probably turn back time again, at the same time I did it last time. And then again... and again... And me, and everything else would be stuck in some kind of "time trap" where the same thing happens over and over. Of course, noone would notice, cause noone would remember the future, but it's still kind of scary. What if you never could live your life fully :S And what if this actually is happening now, time turning back over and over. Maybe I've written this message... like 400 times by now? It doesn't hurt me, since I don't know but... what if? Thecnichally you would remember that yo went back in time because, when you go back, you go back in world's time, and that's YOUR future. So if that's your future, after you travaled back in time you remember your past... Here's a lil' time paradox: The ball down the picture is going toward Port. 1, wich transports it in its own past, getting out of Port. 2, but if the ball that went back in the past hits the ball that was going to Port. 1 before it gets in it, it will deviate from its path and never enter Port. 1, but if it never enters Port. 1, it can't hit itself, so it will enter the Port. 1... hmm.. well, maybe the ball coming from port 2 becomes erased from time the moment it interferes with its past self, but that wouldnt make sence because then the past ball WOULD go on to interfere with itself. maybe since you are already breaking the laws of physics by going back in time in the 1st place, it would result in somthing that is as equally impossible, such as both occurances (the ball interefering with itself so that it never interefere with itself AND the ball going uninterfered into the portal) happens at the exact same time and 2 things exist in the same place |
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#98 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13
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also the only way to tell if your caught in a time trap or not is to live and see if you come across a magical clock and dare turn it back, if not, your living your life without time warping disrupting it
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#99 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 32
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Quote:
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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you ever tried.
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