[Silvuh]

Too many things to respond to. Sorry that this is going to be a disorganized mess.

Originally Posted by bmah

Insane: Yeah, this one would fit.

The problem with exchanging "Ridiculous" with "Insane" is that it doesn't fix the problem. That's just replacing one "crazy" word with another. I didn't use "Insane" in my previous post, because it is too close to "Intense" ... But because it seems like that suggestion won't be implemented, "Insane" would be a good word to switch with "Brutal". But more people have been in favor of removing "Ridiculous" and keeping "Brutal".

Originally Posted by jimerax

- We may need to confirm a few words that are widely-tolerated for hardest part. Currently it looks "Brutal", "Ridiculous", "Legendary", "Insane", "???" are supported by some people here.

My suggestion to use "Relentless/Ruthless" with "Brutal" got some support, too. And it's not that "???" was widely supported, it's that it was already said that it's not going to change, so people didn't change it in their lists.

Originally Posted by bmah

Godly: I don't mind this as much. But the thing that itches me is that Godly in this case refers to the player's ability, and that is sorta assumed as such because a person playing a song of this difficulty must be "Godly", right? Nope. You can be a crap player and play this song. We need a term that is specific to the song itself.

This is the same argument that can be used against all the other rank words, but the appeal to tradition has overridden it in favor of keeping "Master" and "Guru" on the list. So if those aren't moving, why not add a couple more? If we do this, we go back to the old suggestion of using "Divine" after "Legendary", but that whole thing has already been debunked:

Originally Posted by Silvuh

If we're going to keep terms like "Master" and "Guru", "Legend" and "Divine" are good words to use past them to stay in the same theme.

Originally Posted by nois-or-e

The opinions of all 3 Game Managers is that we keep them to varying levels of difficulty, straying away from utilising words that define the ability required. If FFR had an exp. point based levelling system, the titles that yourself and Subin have provided would be perfect. But in the way of accurately defining the level of difficulty of files, we don't think that they are very suitable.

But we seem to be okay with adding "Expert" despite all this for some reason. I don't understand this and I'm not going to try to.

Next:

Originally Posted by jimerax

I think we can shift the actual difficulty of a name for harder side by a bit, due to improvement of the engine and skill boost of people.

This argument is irritating me more now than when Otaku Speedvibe [Oni] became harder to unlock. That only affected those players around that skill level back then, but pushing all of the difficulties up the scale affects everyone, and everyone has not been skill-boosting.

Originally Posted by jimerax

This may start from the "Should 11 be Difficult or "Challenging?" discussion.

There wasn't much actual discussion on this subject; it has just been people putting it one way or another in their lists and others agreeing or not. Originally, the OP had "Challenging" on 11, but a lot of people suggested "Difficult" be there in their lists without giving their reasoning why. (Maybe it was because the first list had already filled in 1-10 with other words, so people put "Difficult" in at 11 to move down "Challenging" and push "Demanding" out. But that reasoning ignores all the other issues.) So here's the way I see it right now:

Difficult
Pros:
- Reflects the skill boots a few notable players in the community have achieved.
- Fewer new "Hard" words have to be agreed on for the difficulty list.
Cons:
- Ignores the rest of the community that has not been skill-boosting: new and lower-division players who have not been gaining much skill are kicked down a few notches.
- More "Easy" words have to be agreed on for the difficulty list.

Challenging
Pros:
- More closely reflects the current difficulty list. Wanting the new list to be in line with the old list is an appeal to tradition, which isn't an argument in itself, but the "pro" here is that it's more encouraging to newer players.
- Fewer new "Easy" words have to be agreed on for the difficulty list.
Cons:
- More new "Hard" words have to be agreed on for the difficulty list, which there has been less agreement on.

Originally Posted by jimerax

- Can "Beginner" and "Novice" co-exist? because they have similar meaning, if not exactly the same. "Beginner" sounds easier, though.

I agree that beginner sounds easier, but that doesn't change the fact the words mean the same thing. The dwi/ddr words "Simple" and "Basic" would be good to use somewhere in there. I didn't use them in my previous list because I wanted to minimize the number of "Easy" words. But that's just another suggestion of mine that hasn't seemed to get enough support.

Originally Posted by jimerax

- "Light" "Standard" "Heavy" are used for the description of different charts, also "Standard" is already in old rating system, so they might be arguable.

Sadly, no one wants to argue against the use of these words anymore.

Originally Posted by jimerax

- If we insert something after "Challenging", "Demanding" or "Intense"?

I'd think if there was any chance of this happening, Jae would have put it in one of his lists since the overwhelming disapproval of "Demanding" and "Very Demanding". "Intense" sounds better than "Demanding", though, and there's been some support for that. The main issue I see with the word "Intense" is that we wouldn't be able to use it with "Insane".


Here are a couple polls. Too bad I can't paste in the HTML vote box thing. These links aren't as attention-grabbing. I would appreciate it if these polls could be put into the OP to make sure they're seen ... if you decide they'll be useful.

Should difficulty 11 be "Challenging" or "Difficult"?

(Assuming difficulties 15–17 will be Expert, Master, and Guru)
What should difficulties 18 and 19 be? (If you click a "something else" option, post your suggestion.)

They might not be the most important questions, but it'd be interesting to see what more people think.