[klimtkiller]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

It's been a while since I made this thread and I know he's not doing well lately so I've kind of been ignoring him. However, from memory:

I really do think he sincerely believes in a lot of what he's saying. He DOES seem to follow the Jungian paradigm (almost to a T... way more than is accepted by the scientific community at large). I really do think he believes a lot of what he wrote in "12 Rules." I also think he (at least at as within his capacity as a therapist) DOES derive sincere satisfaction and pleasure from helping people, especially disenfranchised young men. This is perfectly valuable.

Things get a little muddy when you consider his position as a celebrity and pop-science leader.

I feel like a lot of people in his position compromise their integrity to appeal to more people. (Grifting) I'd need to look at some of his claims but Peterson almost certainly has done this and had profited off of it. (Not totally sure, but I do not totally think "12 Rules" falls in this category.)

One immediately obvious logical failure is in how he applies the basic tenets of Jungian thought. Jung never really dove into psychologies that emerge from actual SYSTEMIC, OPPRESSIVE societal structures. Most of it essentially treats all psychology under the same umbrella, which whitewashes almost all cases where "pick yourself up by your bootstraps!" logic flatly cannot work.

yeah i can agree that the whole 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' mentality, while useful, doesn't work for everyone in the face of overriding circumstances.

that said, from what i've seen of him, although there's stuff i disagree with, he doesn't have any 'evil' beliefs, and has legitimately helped people. I think he was using lobsters to show that hierarchies exist in nature and isn't something that has been invented by our human society, which is true. I don't think he was trying to condone 'systems of oppression'