Quote:
Originally Posted by bmah
I feel as if dumps attack FFR's identity, not that FFR had much of an mechanics-based identity that differentiated it from other rhythm games in the first place. The resistance against putting dumps side by side to normal files is because it brings the game closer to other simulator VSRGs, and in turn REDUCES the uniqueness of FFR. It's not that such files lack merit; it's that FFR has less and less that makes it attractively different from other games, besides maybe a lack of hold arrows. I'd love for FFR to invent a whole new mechanic, but we lack the resources to really make something totally new that stands out. Currently, what makes FFR unique has more to do with what types of charts the game has to offer as opposed to a gameplay-based distinction (except no holds of course). A lot of FFR's past identity was unfortunately based more on limitations rather than innovations. Some of these limitations that were resolved I think greatly improved FFR as a whole, such as weaning ourselves off of framer-based gameplay. But I'm not entirely sure how much FFR would benefit from dumps, though I'm totally willing to have them in the game as a separate category. To place them side by side with normal files is to introduce homogeneity to FFR's identity.
To me, dump files forces us to rethink FFR's identity, how much people even care about identity anymore, and if FFR's overall growth as a site and community can continue with limitations on potential innovations. Dumps to me is one more step towards a lack of uniqueness - but it remains to be seen whether new folks will choose FFR versus other VSRGs in the future. We're certainly getting a lot of new players currently, but they're mainly from pre-existing rhythm gaming communities and I'd like to see some more organic growth. At the very least, dumps are just catering to the echo chamber of seasoned rhythm gamers and we're not really doing much to make it attractive for new, novice players.
Overall, we're looking more inwards than we are outwards IMO.
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FFR's content niche, at least since the end of the widget era, has focused on well-polished, quality charts made by some of the best steppers in any vsrg.
FFR's content niche, with the addition of dumps, will focus on well-polished, quality charts made by some of the best steppers in any vsrg.
Many recent file submissions have included some elements that one might have associated only with dump files. These files pushed the boundaries of what FFR would accept. And we've accepted many of them. Because they're well-polished, quality charts.
So this batch just reduces FFR's boundaries to more thorough dump charts -- rather than a handful of elements like in wubdumps, you can make the whole chart have interesting elements to interpret the music to. We're really just allowing another style of well-polished, quality charts.
Just because the boundaries have changed doesn't mean you can't still push them further. Just because we're allowing more explicitly dump charts doesn't take away from traditional "tech" charts. If it's a well-polished, quality chart, it'll be equally appreciated.
It's just up to us judges to maintain the well-polished, quality status of charts with the addition of dumps. I have every confidence in the judge team to do so. We're still looking for internal consistency and musical relevance, as well as effectiveness and "not-complete-bs-ness" of a stepartist's choices. These are exceptionally similar to what we're already looking for. Even if many of the judge team hasn't/don't make dump files, we're also not above asking for insight from people more experienced with dumps to help ensure we're accepting well-polished, quality charts.
Novice players most likely won't see dumps, at least until they skillboost up a bunch from passing Control. I'm not certain it's possible to make a dump chart easier than at least ~65 in FFR's current difficulty scale. But I'd love to be proven wrong on this with well-polished, quality charts.
What really made FFR unique among vsrg's was always being able to play well-polished, quality charts made by some of the best steppers in any vsrg. But also to do that in a web browser with no real additional downloads. Returning that capability after the death of Flash is in development.
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I also vehemently oppose segregating dumps in any way, be it with a tag, new genre, removed from regular level ranks, whatever. We'd just be setting ourselves up for categorization hell (is x file a dump?) when we encounter those files that blur the edges between dump and "tech." We already have a number of those in the game, contributing to level ranks, behaving like regular files. Because they are regular files.
Just because dumps in FFR is "new" (despite having some already) doesn't mean we need to distinguish them separately in any way. A news post about it is more than enough. We didn't need to segregate Blooddrunk v1 just because it had something new to FFR at the time (hands).
There's no need for any disclaimer on the well-polished, quality dump charts we're likely to accept.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lights
So, you do raise a strong point that this would cut down on the uniqueness of FFR as a client- there is a lot of truth to the statement. However, I don't necessarily agree that its as big of a problem as some may perceive it to be.
Hi, Non-native fifferian here! allow me to share my experience coming to FFR from an outside source and why I tend to stick around- The community, the (relative to other VSRGs) unique take on scoring via raw goods, the events such as the OT, FFRMas, and previous OWL tournament, and all the different systems of tracking progression. (equiv rating lifetime / seasonal, AV-rank, skill tokens, even tier points). Those are ordered from most to least relevant btw.
By far, the most appealing part of FFR is the community. When compared to similar rhythm games theres no contest, the people here are generally rather friendly and mature and quite frankly the game could be like it was in 2005 and i'd still at least be here to hang out. But beyond being full of good company:
Raw goods is a fun scoring metric thats a lot less ambiguous than some seemingly arbitrarily calculated osu!mania score value or a wife3%, it feels like every error has a lot more weight to it and it introduces, to me, a different way to approach playing. Or at the very least, a different way to set scoring goals.
Obviously I don't need to explain why the events around here are appealing, nor all the different numbers FFR chooses to track, but I can summarize it as FFR having a lot of "minigames" built into the same overall gameplay. theres a deceptively diverse set of things going on. maybe this week youre equiv grinding, then you have a session working on token unlocks or tierpoints and now hey, new tournament / event is starting soon. Sure, osu!mania has its fair share of tournaments, but honestly I think FFR does them better and certainly has more variety in format.
All of this is to say that theres more to FFRs outward appeal than the charts on the engine. A lot of the content on FFR I had previously been exposed to before I really knew what FFR was via etterna packs and to me they just came off as just another file to be played. I never came here to experience this unique set of content because, to me, it already wasnt that unique to begin with and i didn't realize that the content on here was of a very specific type and grade until someone eventually told me. With the benefit of more time and playing more files, sure, theres a strong tendency to some more technical content which is less common on some rhythm games, but I cant say it was ever an influencing factor in what initially prompted me to pick up the game. It was those things I mentioned above, there being dumps in the list of charts wouldn't have even factored into the decision making process.
Sure, I'm only one person, everyones experience and priorities are going to vary- If nothing else, I hope it at least contextualizes the angle I'm coming at this from.
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Also wanted to mention that this post is one of the most genuinely heart-warming things I've read in some time, and I greatly appreciate it.