[ledwix]

Originally Posted by MrRubix

Purpose is a human construct. If you want to invoke a "higher purpose," then you might look to religion or something similar because it's assuming something arbitrary and without evidence. We have evidence for purpose where human constructs are concerned.
Way to strawman and misinterpret my argument BTW. Do you even understand evolution? It's not like we can dig in a rock somewhere and "discover purpose." Purpose is an evolved construct just like any other function of the human mind. Why do you think we feel happiness/sadness/emotion/etc? Purpose is a side-effect resulting from our evolved nature to test the consistency of the world through pattern matching and logical inferences regarding causal links. Couple that with human utilitarian concepts and you have "purpose."

I understand the difference between an observed purpose and an ultimate, higher purpose. I’m saying that the biological purpose that we observe in species and particularly in our species, like reproduction, promoting a higher standard of living, or increasing lifespans, isn’t a purpose in itself. It’s only a purpose relative to the fundamentally arbitrary evolutionary goal of survival. “Higher purpose,” something you seem to consider ridiculous and arbitrary, is equally as arbitrary as those purposes we observe in populations like ourselves.

Sure, we "do things." But our actions aren't "arbitrary like religion." They're, at the core, utilitarian and causal. Why do you think we "like" one thing over another? You conflate the concept of purpose in a scientific sense with "purpose" as it's typically defined in most religions. We can lead "purposeful" lives where human utility is concerned, and this is well-evidenced in practically every nook and cranny you can think of. But "higher purpose" is an invoked piece of BS that has no basis in anything and is a displacement of the human ego and utility.

Uh huh, actions are causal and utilitarian. But the same is true for religion. People become religious sometimes when they are feeling sad and are confused about where their lives are going, perhaps. That’s a utilitarian decision directly caused by a lack of drive and fulfillment, since those arbitrary ceremonies they might involve themselves in succeed if they induce utility. The goal of utility is an arbitrary goal in both cases, not only if it’s guided by religion. The truth is that all people strive for something they are not sure even means anything (while trying to avoid the implications of those thoughts), and some strive for something that they know doesn’t mean anything.

The fact that you mention purposeful lives “where human utility is concerned” shows that you believe purpose does not objectively exist but instead exists relative to some cause, in the same way that velocity does not objectively exist except when measured relative to some defined stationary point. If you want a high-paying job, you “ought” to get well-educated. If you want to become a good fisher, you “ought” to have patience. But these are conditionals that assume the purpose of the thing that came before them. I believe you would agree with me if I said that these things had no objective purpose, but instead just did something that would potentially lead to more utility. Utility is an arbitrary purpose, though, and so the rest of activity is, as well. A decision is fundamentally backed by dogma regardless of the logical validity of the argument for that decision.