[IronMonk]

to argue gods side

let me ask you something, if dark didnt exist, would you know what light was? if red didnt exist woudl you know what orange was? to argue against your point, assuming god was the creator of all life, and infinatly loving and such, there would have to be bad in teh world to recognise the good.

Do you enjoy Freedom?

without bad, there is no Freedom. if every person went about their lives doing only good then there is no choice.



to argue against god.

firstly whoever quoted st. aquinas you have altered his text considderably.

here is largly unedited version of aquinases first truth

The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e., that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

now after you read that, ask one simple question and it all falls apart

"who/what put god in motion?"

for a more indepth explanation of a possible explanation of god look at my post under chances of you happeneing.