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-   -   Another Religion Thread... Cause its fun. (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=9646)

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 12:56 AM

Another Religion Thread... Cause its fun.
 
Ok... two questions for christianity. Just looking for some honest opinions / bible mumbo gumbo :D


1) If those who do not beleive that christ is the savior, or rather do not beleive in god at all go to hell... does this mean all people before Jesus was alive got automatic passes to hell?

If you said this is explained because jesus was forgiving them with his death... then...

2) After his death... if a person is never exposed to christian beleifs... does he also automatically go to hell? Because he certainly wouldnt make up the religion on his own accord...

(People raised in non-christian comunities, who may never leave them)

So in turn... is most everyones religion not simply which religion is bestowed upon them at a young age and merely brainwashed to become fact/truth in their eyes? Religion = tradition? Or is a repeatedly re-translated the books the best foundation for a persons style of living and beleif system...

I don't know.

But I'd like to.


Edit: Oh yeah... another note... eternity of suffering and misery in exchange for 60-80 years of ignorance? DO you see any structural flaw here? Sigh. Re-analyze.

fusi0n 04-24-2004 12:59 AM

you aren't going to find the answer in the flashflashrevolution forums.

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 01:05 AM

But i can try!!!!!!

fusi0n 04-24-2004 01:06 AM

you're right

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 01:09 AM

Ok ok... copy and paste time!!! whats a major christian site?!?!

;D

VxDx 04-24-2004 01:09 AM

Re: Another Religion Thread... Cause its fun.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SUSUGAM
1) If those who do not beleive that christ is the savior, or rather do not beleive in god at all go to hell... does this mean all people before Jesus was alive got automatic passes to hell?

If you said this is explained because jesus was forgiving them with his death... then...

2) After his death... if a person is never exposed to christian beleifs... does he also automatically go to hell? Because he certainly wouldnt make up the religion on his own accord...

(People raised in non-christian comunities, who may never leave them)

So in turn... is most everyones religion not simply which religion is bestowed upon them at a young age and merely brainwashed to become fact/truth in their eyes? Religion = tradition? Or is a repeatedly re-translated the books the best foundation for a persons style of living and beleif system...

I don't know.

But I'd like to.

1) Jesus's death allowed them to enter heaven.
2) No.
2b) People often change their religion during the course of their life.

the bible is a guide. where, besides its teachings, would morality be taught?

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 01:13 AM

People do change... but MANY don't, and NO isnt a very good answer to 2... sigh, care to explain?

What happens? You are reborn witha new chance to have christianity brought upon you? Or maybe you are put in a room with a bible and a playboy... and if you pick the wrong one, you are banished.

heh.

VxDx 04-24-2004 01:14 AM

you don't have to be christian to go to heaven. god is compassionate.

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 01:16 AM

Hmm... thats not what Catholic's are telling me...

And also... people made the bible... and people also made morality... neither just appeared. Morality existed WAY before the bible.

VxDx 04-24-2004 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUSUGAM
And also... people made the bible... and people also made morality... neither just appeared. Morality existed WAY before the bible.

what's your point? people wrote the bible, but they didn't invent the stories.

GuidoHunter 04-24-2004 01:22 AM

When it comes to religion, most of us are instilled with the fundamental knowledge as young children, and the church-going after that is supposed to bolster your beliefs and have you accept it yourself.

When we're very young, we have naive beliefs that we follow because we are supposed to. The real test of faith is whether or not you still follow those beliefs when you get old enough to really think about it. Therefore, there really isn't any "brainwashing" involved, but rather laying the foundation.

Regarding the pre-Christ people, they just had a brief respite in Purgatory until He died (unless they lived a life meritorious of hell).

Regarding the group in your number 2, I can say Southern Baptists would answer a resounding "YES", but I like to believe in a more merciful result that would probably include Purgatory. I'll have to check the Catechism of the Catholic Church for a definite answer and get back on that.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com/

GuidoHunter 04-24-2004 01:28 AM

Quote:

people made the bible
People WROTE the Bible, but they were inspired by God. Therefore, it can be taken as God's word, and nothing short of it.

Quote:

you don't have to be christian to go to heaven. god is compassionate.
Not according to Jesus, when he said something along the lines of "None shall enter the kingdom of Heaven except through me".

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com/

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 01:36 AM

at least you gave a sensible answer :) without the usual "im christian im right" ring... ;)

Also, what about the hell thing... i slapped it in my first post earlier, a lifetime of ignorance payed for by an eternity in hell?... How is this merciful?


edit - sp

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VxDx
Quote:

Originally Posted by SUSUGAM
And also... people made the bible... and people also made morality... neither just appeared. Morality existed WAY before the bible.

what's your point? people wrote the bible, but they didn't invent the stories.


The stories did not invent morality... so they are not the only things to teach it.

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 01:51 AM

http://www.religioustolerance.org/purgatory.htm


Mmmmm, burn those sins from their souls...

So, if you never know that christianity exists... you must endure the most terrible pain imaginable... YAY MERCY!

GuidoHunter 04-24-2004 01:53 AM

Quote:

The stories did not invent morality... so they are not the only things to teach it.
However, for Christians, the Bible is the only set of moral standards that one needs to follow.

I'm still trying to work on the hell/ignorance thing. However, you're right; that doesn't seem very merciful, and that's where I disagree with many of my Baptist friends.

Note for the "I'm Christian; I'm right" comment: Hearing that absolutely sickens me. This is a thread about Christianity, and I'm trying to give responses based on generally accepted Christian beliefs (although some may be a little weird to non-Catholics), so I may make my statements matter-of-factly. However, I recognize and respect other views, which is a luxury I didn't receive growing up in one of the most Baptist towns in the nation (Waco, Texas). Many of my friends had the "No, you're wrong, I'm right" mentality, and it is disgusting. I hope to not see it in this thread.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com/

GuidoHunter 04-24-2004 02:08 AM

Purgatory is not typically viewed as a place of punishment. There are references to a "purifying fire", but it is a test of purity, not punishment for sins. The "torment" involved in Purgatory is simply the separation from God, but even that will be remitted once the soul is pure enough to enter heaven. Purgatory is simply a holding place. You're guaranteed admission into heaven once there, but you need to "clean up" before you enter, and you can do this with the help of the prayers of the living.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com/

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 02:10 AM

I'm not a fan of it either... and I'm in east Texas... where we have a crapload of "I'm right you're wrong" action... it's annoyin. Also, Im not out to bash christianity, I'm just asking about some of its weakpoints / personal unknowns

SUSUGAM 04-24-2004 02:14 AM

So are you saying everyone goes to heaven? If they go through purgatory? Or rather... does everyone make it to purgatory?

GuidoHunter 04-24-2004 02:24 AM

Quote:

So are you saying everyone goes to heaven? If they go through purgatory? Or rather... does everyone make it to purgatory?
No. If you deserve to go to hell, you go straight to hell, do not go to Purgatory, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. If you're worthy of getting into heaven, you first go to purgatory, sit there while you clean up your venial (small) sins, then get admitted into heaven as a pure soul worthy of standing in the presence of God. If you go to Purgatory, though, you do have guaranteed admittance into heaven. You get there once you've cleaned up or once Christ came back to earth for the final judgment.

Side note: Is this just between Susugam and me, or is just past everyone's bedtime?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com/


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