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-   -   The Death Penalty (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=91213)

rzr 04-21-2008 07:19 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
Not necessarily. Both the individual and the crime should be taken into account before the death penalty is enforced.

devonin 04-21-2008 08:03 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
The problem with that kind of subjective application of a punishment that can only be final and objective is that you have no greater authority to appeal to in order to claim that your particular list of circumstances where death is warranted is actually valid.

Even if there are crimes where
Code:

|-------------||------------|
A            BC            D

A is obviously where death is warranted, and D is where it is obviously not warranted (Say, unprovoked mass murder, and last-ditch self defense) you will have cases B and C (And things between B and C) where there isn't nearly to clear a choice. In these instances, how can you justify ending someone's life?

rzr 04-21-2008 08:05 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
I'm afraid I do not understand that post. Can you please clarify for me?

devonin 04-21-2008 08:07 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
I'm assuming you ask because you saw the post during the edits for formatting of the graph, before I put in the text below the graph. If the text afterwards still doesn't explain it, I have no idea how else to tell you what I'm saying.

rzr 04-21-2008 08:10 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
Yes, I did see the pre-edit, sorry.

Ok, so then there needs to be a very cleasr set of what warrents the penalty and what does not. If the matter were to be seriously pondered and put into effect, it would be very extensive. Like putting together a constitutioin. Every aspect would need tto be analyzed before the end result came into effect.

devonin 04-21-2008 09:29 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
And when an exception comes up? Some circumstance that wasn't specifically accounted for in your formulation? Some extenuation that ought to mitigate things but wasn't allowed for?

You can't make an exhaustive rules system, this is why smart website and forum makers (shameless plug) use phrases like "Including but not limited to" when they set out to say exactly what can't and can't be done.

rzr 04-21-2008 09:55 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin (Post 2130652)
And when an exception comes up? Some circumstance that wasn't specifically accounted for in your formulation? Some extenuation that ought to mitigate things but wasn't allowed for?

You can't make an exhaustive rules system, this is why smart website and forum makers (shameless plug) use phrases like "Including but not limited to" when they set out to say exactly what can't and can't be done.

There should be an obvious Council or other means of deciding the punisment. A jury. A congress. A council. Something.

devonin 04-21-2008 10:06 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
who is on it? what constitutes qualification to serve? who picks? what if you want to appeal their decisions?

This is really becoming a tangent. The final point about it is that no matter what system you try to develop, it MUST eventually come down to a human saying "For this, you deserve to die" with no objective basis for making that determination. Since execution is completely final, and cannot be reversed or compensated for after the fact if it turns out there was a mistake, I simply can't support a fallible, biased, opinionated human (or panel of humans) dictating terms under which someone's life must be forfiet.

rzr 04-22-2008 11:53 AM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
They would be elected. Just like every other person in power. By the people for the people.

devonin 04-22-2008 02:49 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
Yes...let me just say this again:

I simply can't support a fallible, biased, opinionated human (or panel of humans) dictating terms under which someone's life must be forfiet.

It means not one tiny thing to me whether they were elected "democratically" or not, so your statement doesn't actually address my objection at all.

reuben_tate 04-24-2008 06:56 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
I think a person with a life sentence (w/o paroll) should be able to choose death as an alternative since a life sentence would be lonely with no hope.

Also I think for the death penalty the person should be able to choose how they want to die whether its lethal injection, electric chair, etc...

rzr 04-24-2008 08:35 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
But what about if they are sentenced to death?

devonin 04-24-2008 09:11 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
Out of curiosity, even though this is off-topic, would you be suggesting you can pick -any- way you want to be killed? I mean, jokes about "Old age" as your choice aside, I can think of some pretty twisted ways to want to die that people probably shoudln't be allowed to pick. Are ou going to give them a checklist of three or four to choose from?

rzr 04-24-2008 09:28 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin (Post 2135585)
Out of curiosity, even though this is off-topic, would you be suggesting you can pick -any- way you want to be killed? I mean, jokes about "Old age" as your choice aside, I can think of some pretty twisted ways to want to die that people probably shoudln't be allowed to pick. Are ou going to give them a checklist of three or four to choose from?

Who's this directed at, or is a general question?

tsugomaru 04-24-2008 10:51 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
If you are thinking about a painless death through chemicals, forget it. Studies show that more than half of the people killed through chemicals do not receive less anesthesia than a patient going through surgery. When you see videos of people dying through chemicals, they look like they don't feel the pain at all, but that's only because they are paralyzed. Who knows what kind of pain one would go through before actually dying.

~Tsugomaru

sumzup 04-25-2008 12:36 AM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
I rather think the most painless method of death would be to overdose on some sort of anesthetic. After a certain amount, the anesthetic would become toxic and kill the recipient.

As for the actual death penalty, I will merely direct everyone to this. Several of the last statements have the prisoner professing their innocence; sure, some may have done it as some sort of last joke, but I believe the majority of those who did proclaim innocence were innocent.

Plus, I have no idea why the death penalty is supposed to be a harsher punishment than solitary confinement. Personally, I'd rather die than spend years of my life in a jail cell, let out for one hour each day to exercise.

rzr 04-25-2008 03:51 AM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
I don't think I would factor in pain to my death sentence, just speed. I would personally rather get over with it. Of course, it would be nice to have a quick AND painless death, but beggars can't be choosers.

devonin 04-25-2008 04:44 AM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
My post was directed at Tate, who was the one who said he wanted people to be able to pick their method of execution.

Barring the psychological suffering of knowing your death is impending (which I suppose you get no matter the method) arguably the most efficient and painless method of execution was the guillotine.

sumzup 04-25-2008 11:56 AM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
I'm not sure if the guillotine was necessarily painless. Lavoisier (famous chemist) himself was guillotined, and as a last experiment, asked a friend to watch his head; the head blinked several times before finally dying.

reuben_tate 04-25-2008 01:50 PM

Re: The Death Penalty
 
Unless the person is completly insane then (s)he should have the option of how to die. It is their life anyway.


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