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Re: The Death Penalty
If such a large percent of criminals on death row are innocent, they wouldn't be on death row.
But yeah, it does suck that one innocent person dies when they never did any crime. But it's even worse when someone who did do something escapes because they were not killed and does more damage and destruction. On another note, I agree, npv, some posts here are retarded. Seriously, people, feel free to vote but if you have nothing to contribute this is not the forum for you. Nor the site really... :( |
Re: The Death Penalty
Rzr, read, please. More than one person responded to the "Kill the innocent rather than let one guilty go."
We may convict anyone on death row to be guilty, but we do not have the full evidence to say 100% guilty. Reason being, were weren't involved in the event. They are tagged as guilty enough to deserve penalty because we deem them as so with the obvious evidence present, not full evidence present. Putting it bluntly, I find that your arguments are quite the joke with absolutely no thought about the consequences of your position. I would beg to differ that this thread is a ground for "Serious Posts Only." |
Re: The Death Penalty
There's no need to defend your inadequate post, and that one alone was pointless.
See, the way to defend a pro-death penalty point is generally only through an example; Person x is a child. Person x is 16. Person x kills his parents then progresses to kill 854 students and faculty at his school. Person x is said to be mentally unstable and therefore committed to a psychiatric facility. Person x spends 15 years there. Person x escapes. Person x is at a gas station. Person x kills the cashier. Person x kills 6 people in the gas station. Person x kills 46 more people before jumping off a building. That's one scenario Another one would be this: Person t kills 84 people in a gang fight. Person t is let off because there is no evidence. Person t re-joins th gang. Person t and person e kill 4574 more people by bombing a... [insert largely crowded area here]. In both cases had they killed the offender there would have been NO more deaths. But they didn't. So there were. |
Re: The Death Penalty
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For an example both you and I can relate to, use my TWG ban. There was absolutely no physical proof that I hacked any account. But because I could have I still got banned. See, there was enough evidence to say "it could have happened, so let's still punish him." |
Re: The Death Penalty
Oh was it inadequate? Just a little summary of your arguments.
Person x is a child. Person x is 16. When person Y rampaged Person X's house, Person X grabbed the gun from person Y's hand and braced himself to shoot, but person Y stabbed himself and died. Person Y kills 854 students and faculty at his school before coming to kill Person X's parents. Person x was convicted due to the gun in his hand is said to be mentally unstable and therefore committed to a psychiatric facility. Person x spends 15 years there, until finally court sentenced a death penalty. Deemed fair by you? One as the authority only engages solving with the obvious evidence. Authorities wasn't there. Authorities didn't know. I believe this also concludes this thread, none of us makes the dominate point to what is controversial, not to mention a meaningless topic with no definable conclusion. And no Rzr, an administrator or moderator can by all rights track your IP address and refrain from having it disclosed to you. The hacked account had the same IP access in history as you on the same day it was hacked? bingo. |
Re: The Death Penalty
Something tells me people would recognize the difference between x and y when y killed 854 people at a school and x wasn't there because he was at home.
And zythus, this is CT. I'm not going to personally argue with you. If you disagree with a thread, state your opinion maturely and stop posting. That's not very hard to do, especially if you want to be taken seriously. If you have a conflict with me, feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to clear things up. |
Re: The Death Penalty
Quite, but know that you do not have any position to say:
"On another note, I agree, npv, some posts here are retarded. Seriously, people, feel free to vote but if you have nothing to contribute this is not the forum for you. Nor the site really... " Your authority is unfounded, and frankly, from your arguments of repetition, assumption, with no evidence, you don't differ much from the "retarded" posts in this thread, and I am not the only person who thinks that. So get your head down from the clouds, because you do not own CT nor FFR, so quit acting like it. You can PM and rant at me, but my point is clear. Anyhow, again with assumption. We are hypothetically speaking is it not? like mentioned in the OP. And this is why there is no definable conclusion, because judgment varies with person, and a situation can not be fully understood and relived by a 3rd party, ever. |
Re: The Death Penalty
*rolls eyes* read the rules.
I think I will refrain from posting until devonin can come talk some sense into this thread. Again, you're contributing absolutely nothing to the thread except non-constructive criticism that defies the rules of this forum. |
Re: The Death Penalty
Okay, where to begin. I'll start with content related posts, then *gasp* double post if I have to, to address the name-calling and idiocy.
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Re: The Death Penalty
Gasp! Moderator Double Post!
This is surprisingly short and easy. RZR stop minimodding. You aren't a moderator, you aren't a supermoderator, you aren't an administrator. I read this forum religiously, if someone is doing something improper in these forums I will see it, and I will tell them. At absolute most, report posts or contact me via private message. You have no business telling other users what they are or aren't doing correctly. Zythus' criticism was perfectly valid, and delivered in a perfectly okay manner for this forum. You hadn't addressed an objection others raised, and were simply reminded of it. I would criticize Zythus for bringing up a personal issue like your TGB ban in a discussion that had nothing to do with it, but you brought it up yourself. Zythus, you did cross a line there in your last post, making a blatant personal attack on RZR and implying (fun for the topic: with no evidence) that "a bunch of people" have a problem with him. He's correct to say that if you have an issue with -him- to take it up in private and not air dirty laundry in the forum. But rzr, please don't try to do my job for me. Zythus was contributing, Zythus was making criticisms that -were- valid and -were- in line with forum rules. It was only after you started being hostile that he crossed over into hostility himself. You both need to either deal with your crap in private, or stop posting in this forum. |
Re: The Death Penalty
I apologize, I did step too far. Rzr would like to apologize too.
We disscussed our differences and came to a truce, and we hope to abide by it. I apologize to both Rzr for the sniping and Devonin for disrupting his religiously guarded fourms XD. We hope this won't happen again. |
Re: The Death Penalty
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Back to the subject at hand... |
Re: The Death Penalty
I am using an on screen keyboard at the moment so i can't type to much.
My theory is - if the defendant confesses the crime (therefore there is not a possibility that they are an innocent person and depending on the seriousness of the crime, or if they are caught red handed) then they should get the death penalty. If the crime is really bad but they do not admit it but are found guilty from whatever evidence or if there is a crooked/legit lawyer prosecuting them i believe life is punishment enough as they can still be taken out of prison if the defendant turns out to be innocent. You can't bring back the dead. I know you will all say, but no one will confess to a crime if it means they are getting the death penalty - but a lot of criminals like to confess as they like the infamous attention ect. I maybe wrong but hey - first CT post :-) - i tried. |
Re: The Death Penalty
That raises the question: If the person confesses knowing that they could be executed because of it, because they feel a great deal of remorse, ought we to kill them anyway? If they've demonstrated that they know what they did was wrong, that they feel remorse for having done it, and are willing to put in the effort to become rehabilitated and become a useful member of society again, is it the right thing to say "Well, better safe than sorry, we're executing you anyway"?
The justice system is supposed to serve three puposes: Punishment, Deterrence, and Rehabilitation. Lately it seems that the prison system anyway only tries to serve the purpose of punishment, and most people posting in this thread seem to be along those lines too. It seems to me that the -least- important purpose of the system is to punish the offender. Yes people who commit crimes should face some kind of punishment for having done it, but the primary purpose of the system should be to rehabilitate people into productive members of society, followed by trying to deter crime through the threat of the punishment. I've always maintained that the prison system is too much like a happy vacation for a lot of classes of criminal. If you live on the street, and are willing to kill people or at least hurt them seriously to protect your interests, then prison is pretty much a nice hotel with consistant food, a good library and all the cable channels. A certain class of homeless persons actually aim to commit crimes with 6 month sentences around the start of winter because it gets them out of the cold. If prison is a -happy- alternative to the way someone's life is going, or even an acceptable one, then they are failing miserably to use prison as a deterrence or punishment. The quality of life you have in prison should be inversely proportional to the seriousness of the crime and the length of the sentence. Someone in prison for 3 months for a bar fight can get the prison system they have now. Someone serving 10 years for murder should be living off bread and water in a room just big enough for a cot, sink, toilet, and stool, with no access to anything else. Once the system is actually set up to provide a proper degree of punishment and deterrent effect for inmates, I think it becomes even -more- inappropriate to be executing people. You want them to suffer, so you end their life? The best way to make them pay for what they did is to keep them alive as long as possible in the barest minimum subsistance they can handle and survive. The revenge people get their revenge, the justice people get their justice, and the knowledge that you face the rest of your life living in a box might be a little more of a deterrant to future criminals who currently view prison as the often referred to club fed. Also, wwwJ4mmYcouk, welcome to CT, nice first post :) |
Re: The Death Penalty
Well, the death penalty does rid us of bad people. Then again, if we zap a good guy, then we just made a freaking huge mistake...
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Re: The Death Penalty
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Seeing this title made me think of the anime DeathNote. IMO killing someone for mudering another person only makes us just as bad as they are. they should be forced to pay some sort of peanance for their actions. life in prison perhaps? "you killed my daughter so now you are going to be murdered and we shall call this 'justice'"
in the anime Death Note Light killed criminals as punishment for their crimes against others. muderers and rapists got the harsher penalties (heart attacks) and petty criminals died of disease or accidents. i know its an anime but what if a real deathnote made its way here and got into the hands of someone like light? would you think he deserved the death penalty as he is killing people? or is it a form of justice? i go with the justice answer on this one. its like a positive reinforcement for criminals. they would know that someone is passing judgement upon them and i believe that criminal activity would go down quite a bit as a result. |
Re: The Death Penalty
Do i believe that there should be a death penalty, yes i do. But i do agree that many reformations are needed to keep the innocent out. Although i don't like the fact that when we put people to death, we run the risk of killing an innocent person. There are just people out there that have done things so terrible that i don't think they deserve the taxpayers money to keep them in jail for life.
Just my two-cents. |
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