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Master_of_the_Faster 03-3-2008 10:28 PM

Infinite Life and Government
 
This might be a kind of strange question, but do you guys think that our world's governments would be much more different than they are now if everyone lived for ever?

dore 03-3-2008 11:12 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Yes. You do realize how many people there'd be? It would be pretty tough for a government to keep "order," especially with a lack of an ultimate consequence to threaten with. Who would care about the consequences of their actions? as there would be an infinite number of years to rectify their mistakes.

LLaMaSaUceYup 03-3-2008 11:14 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
We wouldn't die?
Oh man, that would suckkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.
I would never have a child.
I can't even imagine.....
hahaha

Kilroy_x 03-3-2008 11:28 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Yes. They would almost certainly then be completely useless instead of just mostly useless. If everyone is capable of living forever, the world is almost certainly both post-scarcity and post-development. Wealth redistribution is unnecessary, and the classical stated goals of government are basically accomplished. Of course, it seems impossible for government to even exist under these circumstances. The potential for getting around regulation is pretty much infinite at this point. Taxation is unnecessary (and effectively impossible).

Purely hypothetically, there might exist some world in which immortality is not tied to technology. In this world, the labor supply is effectively infinite. The nature of such a world is harder to predict, but also less important to predict.

Master_of_the_Faster 03-4-2008 01:03 AM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Also, let's say we were to all live for ever right now at this very moment and that over population wouldn't be a problem too soon (sorry for all the hypothetical stuff, but I'm sure we can draw reasonable conclusions based on our world today). Do you think infinite life would resolve or make conflicts worse when dealing with situations like Iraq, North Korea, or any other conflicts?

Relambrien 03-4-2008 06:24 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Actually, here's a thought. Imagine that dying by natural causes became impossible, but being -killed- still works.

Of course, there's difficulty in this because things like smoking will eventually kill you by natural causes, being poisoned weakens your organs, etc. In that case, assume something like this: people can only die by violent methods, or by poison and lethal injection, or something like that. So getting hit by a car can still kill you, but if you don't get shot, run over, or poisoned, you'll live forever.

What would happen then?

Grandiagod 03-4-2008 11:08 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
I actually imagine this could happen when stem cell research advances more. People will be able to refresh their degrading cellular structure.

I don't want to sound like a sci fi nerd, but if this were the case I'd imagine the govt. would make a large push for space explorations and terraforming.

jewpinthethird 03-4-2008 11:59 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandiagod (Post 2058877)
I don't want to sound like a sci fi nerd, but if this were the case I'd imagine the govt. would make a large push for space explorations and terraforming.

The government doesn't have that kind of money. Space exploration is going to be a private, multinational corporate institution.

Infinite Life? Ha. Tell that to the sun when it's hydrogen core is depleted and the Earth is engulfed in massive flams.

ps. I am being serious. Massive FLAMS!

pps. Death is a part of life. What is life if there is no end?

Grandiagod 03-5-2008 12:49 AM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird (Post 2058971)
The government doesn't have that kind of money. Space exploration is going to be a private, multinational corporate institution.

You make a very good point. Though I do believe that NASA would at least be working on the fundamental physics to make it possible.

Quote:

Infinite Life? Ha. Tell that to the sun when it's hydrogen core is depleted and the Earth is engulfed in massive flams.
Technically if we were to somehow survive the next 4 billion years without blowing ourselves into oblivion I don't think the sun going nova will be much of a problem. We'll be at least a type 3 civilization by that time.

Quote:

pps. Death is a part of life. What is life if there is no end?
Death isn't a part of life it is the absence or end of life. If life were to continue forever we would simply live.

Maid 03-5-2008 01:17 AM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Specify living forever. Do you mean that our body can't age but is still mortal or not.

Kilroy_x 03-5-2008 01:39 AM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird (Post 2058971)
Infinite Life? Ha. Tell that to the sun when it's hydrogen core is depleted and the Earth is engulfed in massive flams.

Hypothetically, technology which would allow us to control stars could come to fruition.

Quote:

What is life if there is no end?
Longer.

rzr 03-5-2008 11:20 AM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Life would become less meaningful and more harmful. With the surplus of bodies (animal and human) around the planet would become inevtably over populated. We would need to find a way out, possibly another planet? But, who's to say that that planet's inhabitants don't have the rules of death applying to them? Either way, regardless of time, the univers would reach a maximum of matter (excluding the lwas of matter). That would be detrimental to the government if the entire world needed incresing omney to support the population. Most likely we would resort to promitive forms of survival after mass inflation.

MalReynolds 03-5-2008 11:35 AM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
I would assume the government would stop being a governing body and instead turn to science to find a way to destroy life - not because they're evil, but because people will demand it. No one wants to live forever. People WILL want to die, and this will neccessitate the creation of a means to that end.

Oh, hey, I wrote a story about this.

Zythus 03-5-2008 12:51 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
If there was any accordance with the goverment, I would think that corruption is just a old chip off the block. Lets say someone like Hitler for example. If he possessed such a infinity, what kind of destruction would that cause. Having leaders that cannot be passed with the sands of time, thats something I assume no one would like to see, in hitler's case, especially being a dictator.

To humanity generally, it would seem like a pandemonium if life is without end.

Religion:
Is there a need? Now that we are paralell with divinity in terms of longitivity, rather than discoursing over which God is the right one like we do now, we might as well be arguing over something materialistic seeing how there is no more afterlife.

Science:
Some pretty advanced technology, but from all the business seen these days like NKoera or Iraq, more evil will conclude from this than any kind of wishful peace. It is human nature to conquer, to gain power, to succeed, to victor. Guess what, you live eternally now, why not put infinity to good use? We'd be just digging our own graves.

Natural Factors:
It would, futhermore, seem that exhausting our planet's resources would be the blink of an eye. Even if we do not deplete such at an alarming rate, global warming would most likely annihilate all or most life forms residing on this forsakened planet. Like the moon, the earth will become a barren desert. We might have potential with our enhanced technology to live underground with artificial food sources and such.

Space Exploration:
It may have potential if at that time, the spacecrafts accelerate at light speed or over, a fantasia for now, but who knows. Even so, to grant civilians with the results of it, I wouldn't think the goverment then will allow. Like Jewpint said, it would be a highly classified project that stretches beyond the land of politics and power.

MalReynolds 03-5-2008 01:00 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
That's a highly pessimistic look at humanity you have there. So everyone wants to be an evil dictator?

You're taking nothing but extreme negatives away from all of this. Humanity, you know, does have its redeeming aspects.

Zythus 03-5-2008 01:21 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
No, I did not state that everyone does, but if potentially something were to occur, it would most likely be a difficult case.

If I be going to the extremity, I would think much of the posts in this thread is with me.

MalReynolds 03-5-2008 01:27 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
If one person is a dictator, there will be more to stand against him. And feasibly lock him in a concrete coffin and sink him to the bottom of the ocean in lieu of killing him.

Maid 03-5-2008 01:44 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MalReynolds (Post 2059267)
I would assume the government would stop being a governing body and instead turn to science to find a way to destroy life - not because they're evil, but because people will demand it. No one wants to live forever. People WILL want to die, and this will neccessitate the creation of a means to that end.

Oh, hey, I wrote a story about this.

"No one wants to live forever."

How do you know people will want to die if no one has yet experienced living far past normal human life span while being at peak of their health? All you can do is speculate. It just strikes me weird that you are so convinced, are you God?

MalReynolds 03-5-2008 01:54 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
No.

But most people wake up in the morning and try and find things to occupy their time. Most people are afraid of death, but don't really ever get around to living, because they don't know how. People don't want to die, but they don't have much to live for.

And I resent the implication that you think I have a God complex because I assume it's in human nature to do something we're programmed to do - deteriorate and perish.

I'm basing my speculation on observations, just like anyone else.

Are you God?

Maid 03-5-2008 04:19 PM

Re: Infinite Life and Government
 
You have many absolutes in your reply, yet fail to answer my question. Besides why be so defensive to a little joke "are you God?" it's clearly there to lighten the mood.

In my case, I don't know, thus I don't pretend shutting myself off from either side. In fact I can flip your argument upside down, but that wont go anywhere, since I am not convinced either way.

Quote:

I'm basing my speculation on observations, just like anyone else.
The "it" we are arguing over here, can't observed. Per your words.


As to your statement, "most...people don't know how to live" are you actually being serious here? Because this is an instance of cultural programming of your own. It is totally fallacious, because of bias and other factors such as. Question; what constitutes as knowing how to live? Is it being able to feed yourself, have a career you enjoy, etc. All of that is debatable and a lot of people will come to varied conclusions. From extremely simple one to something more complex. Circumstances that you were born under, and we can still go on.

Also you stated that most people don't have much to live for, would you please link me the resource proving such and such? Not too mention "People don't want to die, but bored with life" = therefore if we live for a lot longer than normal, will want to kill themselves off later because they are bored of living." Is what I am getting of off your statement. I know quite a few old people with failing health and they are far from bored with life, even though their bodies are failing. So from, that observation, wouldn't it be more prudent to assume the opposite of what you said?(in addition if you live for long period of time, you would most likely spend that time in your best physical condition)

Anyways, we can go on some more. Hopefully you get what I am trying to say.

I am not sure, how can you convince me that you are correct. This clearly is not going to cut it.


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