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-   -   Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists? (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=81102)

coolade123 10-30-2007 10:17 PM

Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Well pretty much what racists tend to say is that African-Americans do all of sorts of bad things, such as being bad to women. Now, in my opinion, this isn't true. But here is what basically all rappers do. They sing a song that's either about sex, money, murder, or drugs. In their songs they talk about smacking women, owning "hoe's", how they want to have sex with women, murdering people, making money, etc. They also curse many times in their music. I believe that by using these lyrics in their songs, they are making a bad image to African-American people, and pretty much doing the job of racists themselves.

fido123 10-30-2007 10:41 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
I think you should have contributed a bit more than "It should be kicked down the hole of Sparta".

Also I think rap in general is awful music. There is NO musical value to it and is purely lyrical. The lyrics in the songs are almost always stereotypically black. This is the kind of stuff that puts racism in stupid peoples minds. Something else that adds to this is every successful rapper (minus Emenem) is black causing other stupid people to believe only black people do these things.
I am half asleep here...not rechecking my statement...bed time...sorry for poor structure.

Relambrien 10-30-2007 10:41 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Mainstream rap is largely about what you discussed, however there is plenty of rap that discusses personal achievement out of hardship (for instance, from being impoverished to making millions as a rap star); you just don't hear it that often. Not that I like the genre, but it must be defended from stereotypes.

I'll have more on the subject when I can think more clearly.

devonin 10-30-2007 10:52 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Shaionei, if you don't have anything to say that contributes to the thread, do not post anything in the thread.

Coolade, whether you think the quality of his post was worthy or not, responding in kind leaves you just as much at fault.

To the actual topic at hand, I find that there are many artists in Hip-hop and Rap that if you don't parse their medium as music, and instead parse it as poetry, are phenomenally impressive. Freestyle rap is one of the most impressive forms of artistic expression I've seen, I know I could never put thoughts to words so quickly, and maintain themes and rhymes that way.

While the "Gangsta" culture exhibited in a lot of rap music is problematic (And I do agree that it is very 'one step forward, two steps back' [In that it is a move forward for black culture that black artists are successful, and making money, and then two steps back that they use this newfound fame to espouse qualities that are reprehensible]) bear in mind that not all rap is Gangsta rap, and not all rap forwards negative stereotypes.

ShAiOnEi 10-30-2007 11:36 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Ok here's a contribution we all know where this thread is going to end up anyways who cares if ignorant music talks down about their own race let them do it if they so choose to. Every wannabe gangster and his brother and sister and mother want to have their own record label selling out cheap gangster beats and flows. It seems that they don't care what they put into the lyrics as long as they get a sellout creating pieces of ****.

devonin 10-30-2007 11:51 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
You know, if you phrased it in a less inflammatory tone, that would have been a very useful post. It raises another question: What, if anything, does the -popularity- of the more offensive types of rap music say about the people who listen to it?

Does black culture necessarily "buy into" the gangster lifestyle by supporting this music, or is it more a case of wanting to support black artists, or is it perhaps more a case of just finding the style to be entertaining, regardless of the lyrics? To what extent do the fans of negatively stereotyping music therefore support the stereotypes rather than just supporting the artists?

ShAiOnEi 10-30-2007 11:57 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin (Post 1858007)
You know, if you phrased it in a less inflammatory tone, that would have been a very useful post. It raises another question: What, if anything, does the -popularity- of the more offensive types of rap music say about the people who listen to it?

Does black culture necessarily "buy into" the gangster lifestyle by supporting this music, or is it more a case of wanting to support black artists, or is it perhaps more a case of just finding the style to be entertaining, regardless of the lyrics? To what extent do the fans of negatively stereotyping music therefore support the stereotypes rather than just supporting the artists?

In my opinion I really don't care what rap artists motives/reasons are for creating this music.

devonin 10-30-2007 11:59 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Erm..none of what I asked there had anything to do with the motives of the artists. I was asking questions about what the support of those artists says about the listeners.

Comprehension is fun.

ShAiOnEi 10-31-2007 12:02 AM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin (Post 1858018)
Erm..none of what I asked there had anything to do with the motives of the artists. I was asking questions about what the support of those artists says about the listeners.

Comprehension is fun.

Hm well I don't know I never asked them why they support it and probably never will. I really don't understand that last sentence please bring me up to speed about whether why the artists create the music or why the listeners support the artists. Edit: To be exact I don't understand the second to last sentence right before the ironic statement.

devonin 10-31-2007 12:10 AM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Well...the discussion is about

a) The motives of rappers in making music that supports a negatively stereotypical lifestyle
and
b) What supporting such music says, if anything, about the supporters of the music.

If as you say, you neither know about nor care about either of these questions, finding another thread to post in might be a good idea.

soulmark 10-31-2007 12:10 AM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
There are certain forms of music performed by whites that don't showcase the best of white culture. Yet I have never read of any critique of the culture as a whole because of a negative artform presented by some of it's members.

When certain members of a culture create that which is negative, that does not mean it is a meaningful part of that culture. NAMBLA exists and yet no one makes an indictment of the culture that the majority of its members belong to.

White culture is associated with country, classical, rock, pop, bluegrass, blues, jazz, and many other types of music. Yet, African American culture is usually only associated with R&B and rap music. The African American culture is as large in its diversity as any other culture. Those that choose to limit their scope of observation to what is marketed by media do themselves great dishonor. Check out The Merchants of Cool on PBS.org, and you will find out why rap music is such a large part of so called popular culture.

devonin 10-31-2007 12:17 AM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Quote:

White culture is associated with country, classical, rock, pop, bluegrass, blues, jazz, and many other types of music. Yet, African American culture is usually only associated with R&B and rap music.
This is such a remarkably interesting statement, that I really think it should be the focus of its own thread and discussion.

ShAiOnEi 10-31-2007 12:18 AM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin (Post 1858032)
Well...the discussion is about

a) The motives of rappers in making music that supports a negatively stereotypical lifestyle
and
b) What supporting such music says, if anything, about the supporters of the music.

If as you say, you neither know about nor care about either of these questions, finding another thread to post in might be a good idea.

Good idea, no need to post in a pointless thread that will go nowhere. In the back of our minds we mostly all know why people listen to it, it's easily obsessible if you have no other musical tastes. Almost always makes people think they are "Gangster" or "hard" for listening to cheap beats and gang related themes and the most awesome lyrics ever created. Try to find the sarcasm I put in my post. But you can continue debating over the most shallow, vague and unoriginal music ever created though. 8)

devonin 10-31-2007 12:27 AM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
We shall, please refrain from joining in, from here on out.

xzyt666 10-31-2007 12:29 AM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
My, my. I never new that people who go on a website that is interested in mainly games could be so insightful and intelligent.

Anyway, now to the topic at hand. Personally I believe that the people that are supporting this music (the gangster rap.) are generally idiots to begin with. Tell me the last time that you saw someone, or know someone that is intelligent who listens to this. I defend this statement by saying what kind of intelligent person would want to support the stereotyping of a race as well as the subliminal (take this term lightly.) perversion of people.Of course there is also the defense in saying that there has to be at least someone who listens to it. The point is; whenever you try to analyze things like this they just generally get wrapped back around into a defense that is almost completely reasonable.

Take for instance. By stereotyping a race it allows that race or culture to take back what has been taken away from them; (in this case there own individuality.) thus a large portion of that race will want to prove that they are not at all like "some" people of there culture have made them out to be. This in turn will cause an uproar of people proving there worth as individuals. Then the world goes round.

uselessaccount 11-2-2007 01:04 AM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xzyt666 (Post 1858059)
Personally I believe that the people that are supporting this music (the gangster rap.) are generally idiots to begin with. Tell me the last time that you saw ysomeone, or know someone that is intelligent who listens to this. I defend this statement by saying what kind of intelligent person would want to support the stereotyping of a race as well as the subliminal (take this term lightly.) perversion of people

If thats what you really think, then you are the idiot. Don't be so shallow. The type of music doesn't reflect on how intelligent the person is. It might be representative of the way they talk, dress, and other social things, but not how smart they are. Just because someone walk, talk, acts, like a gangster, or even is a gangster doesn't make them dumb. As a matter of fact, you are stereotyping people who listen to rap as dumb, which is basically like saying "people who listen to emo music cut themselves" or "people who listen to techno are nerds", etc. Blame the industry and media for the way things turned out nowadays.

If anything though, comedy is probably the number one fuel for the fire of racism. Why? Because it turns racial stereotypes into something that people enjoy and listen to a lot. I mean, I think people like Chappelle are damn funny but it really does implant racism in people.

chunky_cheese 11-2-2007 01:14 AM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Ever leaned over on your city bus and seen some of the songs on the teenager's ipod next to you? I've noticed that the more preppy, druggie, and negative kids like to listen mainly to mainstream music. I believe this is likely because they don't actually have time to experiment with different kinds of music and resort to television, radio, and other forms of easy media to find music.

I don't seem to notice this liking of mainstream music to have anything to do with one's race, although culture may play a significant role. For example, a very cultural East Indian family may raise their children to enjoy the music of their culture, among other styles. But aside from family, there is also racial association that may also play a key factor. If a young black man's black friends all listen to the same kind of music, he may catch onto it, not only from his peers influencing his taste, but the sheer fact that he can associate both racially and culturally with them, and will feel a sense of belonging with them and the music. This may also be true for a musical artist of the same race, and the desire to support them.

KardinalSyn 11-5-2007 02:54 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Music is music, people. There's no other way to put it. Just because I enjoy listening to someone talk about blowing another persons brains out(this is strictly an example, you know), or selling cocaine or anything else, does not mean that I actually believe that is something the person should go out and do in their spare time. That's the point of music, movies, and many other things afterall; to be creative. Some rappers rap about making money, getting ho's, and things like that because they actually believe it's the proper thing to do. I do not support them in any way. Others discuss these topics in their music to promite awareness. They're not actually talking about THEMSELVES doing all of these things, but the black community doing these things. They try to force black youth to open their eyes and see that these things are not what we should be doing.

Just because a topic is ugly doesn't mean that it shouldn't be discussed. If anything, it means that it should be discussed in depth so people don't get the wrong idea.

MixMasterLar 11-5-2007 06:02 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Quote:

Some rappers rap about making money, getting ho's, and things like that because they actually believe it's the proper thing to do. I do not support them in any way. Others discuss these topics in their music to promite awareness. They're not actually talking about THEMSELVES doing all of these things, but the black community doing these things. They try to force black youth to open their eyes and see that these things are not what we should be doing.
Im willing to guess that for every one song that is about self-awareness in mainstream media rap, there are about 8 that show these activities in a bright light. And even if we are are smart enough to relize it's just a song, do little 10 year olds and under really understand what it's all about.

Dont even tell me that only retards would take them for real; In this generation perents dont seem to talk with the child anymore. Very few 16 and under year olds are what FFR's CT would call "smarter than that" (and that's sad, we're a game site after all)

Also something to point out: in mainstream rap, Blacks can call Whites slang terms and talk down to anyone they care to, yet you let ant country artist say anything about their race and all hell breaks loose. This sets off a image that young blacks can do anything they want

TRUE STORY: I speant 10 minutes in a arcade listening to a black tell me how retarded my race was (among other things) and I told him "You need to stop being racist, it' agaisnt the law here" and he wanted to fight me for saying that a black could be racist (NOT that he was, just a black could)

Now I will say, some of the coolest people I know are black, heck some of the worst people I know are white. I in no means am trying to implie Im racist, or that anyone is less then anyone else for reasons they cant control, I AM anti-racist, and mainstream rap seems to promote it!

lord_carbo 11-5-2007 10:24 PM

Re: Rappers Doing The Job Of Racists?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 1864625)
Im willing to guess that for every one song that is about self-awareness in mainstream media rap, there are about 8 that show these activities in a bright light. And even if we are are smart enough to relize it's just a song, do little 10 year olds and under really understand what it's all about.

Maybe a few of those, but really, all of them?

And yes, 10 year olds aren't complete idiots. Unless their parents are idiots, then yes, they are idiots. But see, the problem there is bad parenting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 1864625)
Dont even tell me that only retards would take them for real; In this generation perents dont seem to talk with the child anymore.

For one, I don't feel as if a "violence is baadddddd" talk is really necessary after the age of 11 for most people. Secondly, well you're just stereotyping, and your stereotype really have no empirical basis for accuracy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 1864625)
Very few 16 and under year olds are what FFR's CT would call "smarter than that" (and that's sad, we're a game site after all)

I don't find it sad that the FFR forum community is probably above average in terms of intelligence. It's an online forum. The type of people who come to online forums are not your general idiots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar (Post 1864625)
Also something to point out: in mainstream rap, Blacks can call Whites slang terms and talk down to anyone they care to, yet you let ant country artist say anything about their race and all hell breaks loose. This sets off a image that young blacks can do anything they want

Really? I listen to mainstream rap (well, I'm subjected to it by no will of my own) on the bus to school (see?) and I never hear stuff like that. Sure, it may not be that "gangsta rap" stuff, but it's definitely the most mainstream rap there is, or at least the most I see. I unfortunately had to deal with little kids over the summer. Little second graders dancing to Crank That Soulja Boy. It was painful, both watching them and getting them to calm down. Some kids at the park were also listening to that Can't Tell Me Nothing (Kanye West) in the park. I hear both of those songs on the radio.


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