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-   -   Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=80399)

Hudelf 10-19-2007 01:26 AM

Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
As I've been perusing the forums (and, well, the internet in general), I've noticed a bit of a split between A) People that either don't care about good grammar/spelling or that simply don't have it and B) People that think these are of the utmost importance, especially online.

Personally, I think it is extremely important to be mindful of grammar and spelling, since these are really the only things others have to judge you on. While what you say may be intelligent and insightful, if it's written in l33t5p34k, I'm not going to give it nearly as much credit. To me, it comes off as not only immature, but also very lazy.

Thoughts and opinions? (NO FLAMING OR ARGUING)

tsugomaru 10-19-2007 01:39 AM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
This seems more of a Chit-Chat thread, but whatever.

I'm all for grammar, but as long as your message can get clearly across, I'm fine with it. After all, that's what communication is all about.

~Tsugomaru

Hudelf 10-19-2007 01:41 AM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Eh, mods feel free to move it anywhere, I just didn't want a boatload of people responding with depth-less comments.

wwwJ4mmYcouk 10-19-2007 06:21 AM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
I think as long as the post is readable then it doesnt matter. The grammer doesnt have to be perfect.

purebloodtexan 10-19-2007 09:01 AM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
It's now a rule that you atleast try to type properly on these forums.

omgitznpv 10-19-2007 09:14 AM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Proper grammar and spelling is always better. If the post does not have proper grammar/spelling, I don't have much of a problem, unless the post is unreadable. I'll prefer proper grammar/spelling.

-> Proper grammar and spelling.
-> not proper grammar and spelling
-> unredable gremerr end spelng

andy-o24 10-19-2007 10:09 AM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
First off, yes, grammar and spelling are important on forums and general chatting. Secondly, the only thing wrong with the "-> not proper grammar and spelling" is the 'N' in 'not' not being capitalized and there's no period. But, not to be off topic too far, grammar and spelling are important but if you miss CaPiTaLiZaTiOn and commas it's not going to be that bad. Like afermentioned, if it's not too horribly butchered then I'm fine with it.

Tokzic 10-19-2007 11:31 AM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
I use grammar and spelling when I'm serious because it just seems half-assed not to do so. I prefer reading posts with full grammar, and no matter what, spelling shouldn't be horrible. Not correcting typos before you hit "Post" is just lazy and it shows you don't really care about what you're saying.

on the other hand when i'm not being 100% serious i drop capitalization and end of sentence punctuation

this helps with that whole "internet tone" thing

Squeek 10-19-2007 12:53 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Nobody here cares if you're absolutely perfect. It's the effort that counts.

Believe me, I break grammatical rules all the time.

All we care about is that people understand the difference between a forum and a chat room / instant message chat.

GuidoHunter 10-19-2007 01:17 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tsugomaru (Post 1840395)
I'm all for grammar, but as long as your message can get clearly across, I'm fine with it. After all, that's what communication is all about.

Communication is about effectively conveying an idea. Grammar rules exist as a standard so that we can all understand each other, and if those are thrown out the window, there is a communication breakdown.

Misunderstandings and misconceptions are effectively eliminated when good grammar is used because, for the most part, there is only one (contextual) interpretation of a string of words. This allows messages to be read and understood only once, leaving both the writer and the reader to move on. Without that, messages have to be reread several times to make sense of what is written and to try to interpret the intention of the author. These problems lead to slower communication and misunderstandings.

Even people with "pretty good" or "good enough" grammar are going to have their messages misconstrued at one point or another.

It is in everybody's interest to use pristine grammar in all aspects of life for the sake of efficient communication, and especially to present yourself as having an IQ greater than that of a grapefruit.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Verruckter 10-19-2007 01:20 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Since I've entered college, I've been thinking a lot about language (since my program is about studying languages). I read a lot about germanic and latin languages, about how they descend from Proto-Indo-European, which is a hypotetical language that could be the ancestor of now French, English, German, Spanish, Swedish, etc. I noticed all of these different languages and dialects evolves independantly from each other.

Now, the dilemma here is wether or not to let the language follow it's evolutive course, i.e. let internet slang take over and simplify everything to eventually become it's own dialect, a process which is absolutely normal in the evolution of a language, or make strict rules about preserving the actual language and not let it change, thus stopping the evolutive process, but keeping a decency and general comprehension.

Still haven't made my mind which is best yet.. :P

TD_m0nster 10-19-2007 01:31 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
It becomes a problem when someone insults someone elses point of view and shows that they can't even speak for themselves. Let me exemplify a brief situation:


"I personally think...blah blah etc etc."
"your an idiot"


Who's the idiot?

Hudelf 10-19-2007 03:20 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Verruckter (Post 1840813)
Now, the dilemma here is wether or not to let the language follow it's evolutive course, i.e. let internet slang take over and simplify everything to eventually become it's own dialect, a process which is absolutely normal in the evolution of a language, or make strict rules about preserving the actual language and not let it change, thus stopping the evolutive process, but keeping a decency and general comprehension.

I disagree with the idea of that being a normal evolutionary process. If everyone online were to completely ignore grammar and spelling, I think it would be foolish to think those habits would not carry into other domains as well.

Good writing ability and vocabulary comes from practice. If, as children, one is never introduced to proper grammar, it is entirely plausible that they will not learn until it is too late, meaning college or even into the working world, which can be disastrous, especially concerning resumés and the like.

foilman8805 10-19-2007 04:18 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
it generally comes down to comprehension as numerous people have already said. if the meaning of the message is distorted by terrible communication, then there is a problem.

it's really a personal choice, that is, how you type. but depending on how you type, you are subject to different levels of criticism, because as you said Hudelf, someone that types in leetspeak is bound to receive far less praise, and much more scrutiny and flames especially from people on FFR.

the only thing i don't do religiously is capitalize - unless it's a name or i'm trying to add emphasis. i tend to think that people don't look down on my typing because of that. i hope.

Verruckter 10-19-2007 04:18 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudelf (Post 1840951)
I disagree with the idea of that being a normal evolutionary process. If everyone online were to completely ignore grammar and spelling, I think it would be foolish to think those habits would not carry into other domains as well.

Good writing ability and vocabulary comes from practice. If, as children, one is never introduced to proper grammar, it is entirely plausible that they will not learn until it is too late, meaning college or even into the working world, which can be disastrous, especially concerning resumés and the like.

Well I agree that internet slang is maybe not the best example, but I do think it's normal for a language to change throughout time, and maybe communications are helping to do that.

lord_carbo 10-19-2007 04:27 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Recently I read a post on a forum which started with, "[he] seems to have thought that i was supporting his position is that the healthcare system ISNT meant to do a profit.. because its government run." He completely intertwined the relative clause with the next sentence, thus his message was completely construed. What truly made it confusing was the fact that the original poster was in defense of private health care. I didn't know how to respond except to criticize his grammar.

Grammar is important, especially at such a basic level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudelf (Post 1840951)
I disagree with the idea of that being a normal evolutionary process. If everyone online were to completely ignore grammar and spelling, I think it would be foolish to think those habits would not carry into other domains as well.

Good writing ability and vocabulary comes from practice. If, as children, one is never introduced to proper grammar, it is entirely plausible that they will not learn until it is too late, meaning college or even into the working world, which can be disastrous, especially concerning resumés and the like.

Uh, that's how it's an evolutionary process. Read some old literature. William Shakespeare, the King James Bible, Jonathan Edwards, even anything as recent as Charles Dickens. You'll see a more prevalent use of the subjunctive mood, a concept often under-looked in modern English classes. I perpetuate its use, lest it die out completely. "Thou," "thy," stuff like that, too. And it's just different. I do not know how I would go about explaining the difference. We just know it to exist.

Old English's distinctions from other Germanic languages comes from the evolution of language. Have you learned reflexive verbs in Spanish or German? Noun gender? That too (and thank goodness).

Verruckter 10-19-2007 04:42 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_carbo (Post 1841030)
Recently I read a post on a forum which started with, "[he] seems to have thought that i was supporting his position is that the healthcare system ISNT meant to do a profit.. because its government run." He completely intertwined the relative clause with the next sentence, thus his message was completely construed. What truly made it confusing was the fact that the original poster was in defense of private health care. I didn't know how to respond except to criticize his grammar.

Grammar is important, especially at such a basic level.

That's not grammar, it's syntax. Grammar is spelling and conjugating, while syntax is the order of the words in their context, punctuation, etc.

Also, I think English is one of the only indo-european languages that doesn't have reflexive verbs and noun genders. Not too sure where that comes from, though.

devonin 10-19-2007 04:45 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
I'm always amused to see the argument regarding the evolution of language come up, because it always has false dilemma written all over it.

Generally you'll see something like this: "Languages evolve and change, we can see that by looking at the history of english. Internet-style slang is becoming more prevalent, so we have to -choose- between "Letting the language evolve" or "Resisting the evolution""

The attitude that kind of thought process shows is one that says there can only be one path of linguistic evolution, and so we either have to go with it, or discard it staying where we are, and doesn't allow for the fact that multiple changes can happen in tandem, and we can accept some and reject others.

People coin phrases all the time, some catch on, some don't catch on. This is just the normal course of any evolutionary process. Unfortunately, one of the changes seeing widespread use is the discarding of existing rules primarily of spelling and grammar, in favour of textually efficient speech. The -quicker- you can communicate, the better.

In its own way, internet slang is actually fairly similar to things like older forms of Hebrew, where while still leaving enough letters to decode the meaning, you've done away with vowels entirely, shortening words considerably. Just...unlike hebrew, they haven't also included the use of things like vowel marks to facilitate pronunciation.

Half the reason English is such a complex language to learn is that we've done away with a number of the guiding grammatical and linguistic concepts that other languages have, which make mastery of the language more forumlaic and studied. So in its own way, English is actually a sort of text-speak version of the romance languages.

MixMasterLar 10-19-2007 04:49 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Grammar is important, but I'm not really one to talk since I'm known for breaking grammar rules, typos, and misspellings all the time =)

Also, anyone else remember Laharl's Grammer thread?

EDIT: Also I agree with Dev

lord_carbo 10-19-2007 05:12 PM

Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Verruckter (Post 1841047)
That's not grammar, it's syntax. Grammar is spelling and conjugating, while syntax is the order of the words in their context, punctuation, etc.

Also, I think English is one of the only indo-european languages that doesn't have reflexive verbs and noun genders. Not too sure where that comes from, though.

Grammar encompasses syntax. But don't take my word for it. Insert your fingers into the pages of the nearest dictionary, the nearest English book, or the nearest Wikipedia to where you sit, and search yourself.


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