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-   -   Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong? (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=79382)

hayatewillown 10-2-2007 10:55 PM

Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
Post your thoughts on this.

We all know there is a checks and balances, but at one point in your life did it ever seem like it was too powerful?

I was looking into this and the legislative branch can conduct war [Congress] and amend the constitution.

So, Let me know [And FFR] what you think about the legislative branch.

Relambrien 10-2-2007 11:02 PM

Re: Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
While Congress can overturn decisions made by the other branches, in order to do so it must have a 2/3 majority in favor of a certain decision. When you have 300 million+ people in a country all divided between two major parties, getting a 2/3 majority on anything the other branches would reject is nearly impossible.

For this reason, I actually consider the judicial branch the branch with the most practical power. Since there are only 9 justices, it's much easier to get a majority to think a certain way, and therefore easier to hand down a ruling (which is equivalent to law for all intents and purposes). Even though Congress could overturn the decision, it would need a 2/3 majority, which is ridiculously difficult for the reasons stated above.

Of course, the Supreme Court can't do anything it wants, simply because the more ridiculous a ruling is, the easier it is for Congress to get a majority to overturn it. If the Court abolished free speech, it wouldn't matter whether Congress was 51% Democrat or Republican--well over 2/3 of them would vote to overturn the decision.

So while the legislative branch has the most theoretical power, power is spread very well practically.

hayatewillown 10-2-2007 11:22 PM

Re: Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
Ah, Ok, thats pretty cool.

I didn't think the Judicial branch could work like that.
Now I see, Thanks.

Yeah, 300 million people would be difficult.
And I Considered the Supreme court the weakest.

Whats funny is that people think that our president can declare war!

Kilroy_x 10-2-2007 11:31 PM

Re: Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
Of course it is. We shouldn't have a legislative branch.

rade0110 10-2-2007 11:46 PM

Re: Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien (Post 1812699)
While Congress can overturn decisions made by the other branches, in order to do so it must have a 2/3 majority in favor of a certain decision. When you have 300 million+ people in a country all divided between two major parties, getting a 2/3 majority on anything the other branches would reject is nearly impossible.

For this reason, I actually consider the judicial branch the branch with the most practical power. Since there are only 9 justices, it's much easier to get a majority to think a certain way, and therefore easier to hand down a ruling (which is equivalent to law for all intents and purposes). Even though Congress could overturn the decision, it would need a 2/3 majority, which is ridiculously difficult for the reasons stated above.

Of course, the Supreme Court can't do anything it wants, simply because the more ridiculous a ruling is, the easier it is for Congress to get a majority to overturn it. If the Court abolished free speech, it wouldn't matter whether Congress was 51% Democrat or Republican--well over 2/3 of them would vote to overturn the decision.

So while the legislative branch has the most theoretical power, power is spread very well practically.


There is so much more involved to what you said it's rediculous. First off, the Supreme Court has nothing to do with what laws are passed. They only determine what the law means. If a law says "People have the right to kill people in self-defense." It is the Supreme Court's decision to decide what is "self-defense." As far as the whole 2/3 majority thing, there is a whole precurser to that part. Also, congress doesn't veto anything. Only the president does. The whole overturning part comes in when the president does actually decide to veto a law/bill. Then congress comes together to determine whether or not to overturn a veto. That takes 2/3 the majority. I could go on, but i think that's enough.

BTW, all branches of the government have too much power. The Founding Fathers would be turning over in their graves if they saw how much control the government has today. However all branches of the government are necessary.

Relambrien 10-3-2007 10:53 PM

Re: Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rade0110 (Post 1812778)
There is so much more involved to what you said it's rediculous.

Of course there is, why do you think the Constitution is as long as it is?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rade0110
First off, the Supreme Court has nothing to do with what laws are passed. They only determine what the law means. If a law says "People have the right to kill people in self-defense." It is the Supreme Court's decision to decide what is "self-defense."

Yes, but their ruling has the force of law, which is what "which is equivalent to law for all intents and purposes" was supposed to mean. If they decide that you can kill if someone's pointing a gun at your friend, then that might as well be a law, seeing as how the "self-defense" clause now includes that implication.

And if you're referring to my whole "abolition of free speech" example, then I figured it was obvious that anyone interested in abolishing it would have to bring a case to court and deal with any rulings, appeals, etc. until it got to the Supreme Court. That's why I said in my final statement, that "power is spread very well practically."

Quote:

Originally Posted by rade0110
As far as the whole 2/3 majority thing, there is a whole precurser to that part. Also, congress doesn't veto anything. Only the president does.

I didn't use the word "veto" anywhere in my post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rade0110
The whole overturning part comes in when the president does actually decide to veto a law/bill. Then congress comes together to determine whether or not to overturn a veto. That takes 2/3 the majority. I could go on, but i think that's enough.

Yes...that's exactly what I said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by rade0110
BTW, all branches of the government have too much power. The Founding Fathers would be turning over in their graves if they saw how much control the government has today. However all branches of the government are necessary.

You'll have to elaborate on this for me.

lord_carbo 10-4-2007 05:09 PM

Re: Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hayatewillown (Post 1812682)
Post your thoughts on this.

We all know there is a checks and balances, but at one point in your life did it ever seem like it was too powerful?

I was looking into this and the legislative branch can conduct war [Congress] and amend the constitution.

So, Let me know [And FFR] what you think about the legislative branch.

The legislative branch has way too much power, but coequally the majority of the people are stupid, don't challenge their beliefs, and hold biases when they do "challenge" their beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien (Post 1812699)
While Congress can overturn decisions made by the other branches, in order to do so it must have a 2/3 majority in favor of a certain decision. When you have 300 million+ people in a country all divided between two major parties, getting a 2/3 majority on anything the other branches would reject is nearly impossible.

Our current Congress. (Hint: Not a reference to House of Leaves).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien (Post 1812699)
For this reason, I actually consider the judicial branch the branch with the most practical power. Since there are only 9 justices, it's much easier to get a majority to think a certain way, and therefore easier to hand down a ruling (which is equivalent to law for all intents and purposes).

To be completely fair, I think that the judicial branch is the least corrupt and most unbiased group in government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x (Post 1812756)
Of course it is. We shouldn't have a legislative branch.

Spot on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rade0110 (Post 1812778)
However all branches of the government are necessary.

Not really.

Relambrien 10-4-2007 05:19 PM

Re: Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_carbo (Post 1814682)
Our current Congress. (Hint: Not a reference to House of Leaves).

I think I'm missing something. And the question was "Does the legislative branch have too much power," implying that the current Congress (and legislative branch in general) is the one in question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_carbo
To be completely fair, I think that the judicial branch is the least corrupt and most unbiased group in government.

I happen to agree (once again, "practically, power is spread very well"), but that doesn't change the fact that the system makes it relatively easier for the judicial branch to effect changes.

lord_carbo 10-5-2007 09:00 AM

Re: Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Relambrien (Post 1814693)
I think I'm missing something. And the question was "Does the legislative branch have too much power," implying that the current Congress (and legislative branch in general) is the one in question.

Our current Congress is pretty democratic. The demise of one party in power (see: George Bush) often leads to the rise of another. It's a common trend in history and someone like you should see this, no? And now that it seems like the republicans have no chance at winning, well, our country is pretty much going to be ****ed by democrats. Not that neocons are much better, but still, there's no balance, the one you stress.

If SCHIP doesn't pass Congress, there's no doubt that it'll be proposed once again when there's a democrat in office. Or, they'd try to push for all-out socialization.

Relambrien 10-5-2007 01:33 PM

Re: Do you think the Legislative branch is too strong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_carbo (Post 1815756)
Our current Congress is pretty democratic. The demise of one party in power (see: George Bush) often leads to the rise of another. It's a common trend in history and someone like you should see this, no?

This is true, however the Democratic majority in Congress isn't anywhere near the 2/3 required to overturn a decision made by the other branches. Even when you factor in Democrats and Republicans who vote against the majority of their party, I doubt you'd be able to get a 2/3 majority on anything particularly party-specific.

I do agree with you that, assuming a Democrat is elected president in '08, the Democratic party will have a very large advantage over the Republican party in our national government, eliminating a balance between the two parties. However, that's still in the future, and the current Congress is offset by the fact that we have a Republican as president right now, so right now it doesn't have too much power.

Remember, I take "current" in this context to mean "right this second."


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