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-   -   Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=78582)

coberst 09-21-2007 02:11 PM

Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning

A large percentage (studies suggest over 90%) of the meaning we derive from communication, we derive from the non-verbal cues that the other person gives.

How does one communicate with an unseen audience that can be anybody in the world? In face-to-face communication there is so much information about the audience at hand that does not exist on the Internet.

Does one use language for the 12 year old, or the 18 year old, or the 25 year old, the educated, the non-educated? How to speak coherently to the 12 year old while not infuriating the 18 year old and how to mold an essay for the 30 year old without losing the 18 year old.

People who write books have editors to act as a third party who understands the material and understands the anticipated audience.

How do I, who have been studying the matter at hand for months and even years, know what words to provide a parenthetical definition that some may need but others may consider to be condescending?

Anti-intellectualism (opposing or hostile to intellectuals or to an intellectual view or approach) is so prevailing in the United States that almost every reader has a strong anti-intellectual bias that they are completely unconscious of. This anti-intellectual bias constantly inhibits their effort to read anything that smacks of being ‘intellectual’.

People might pay me money to lecture them on the proper way to swing a golf club but to lecture anyone on matters intellectual is pompous (excessively elevated or ornate—having or exhibiting self-importance).

devonin 09-21-2007 02:41 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
Coberst

beaner692 09-21-2007 02:52 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
While we are on the subject, does anyone believe in ghosts?

I find them phisically impossible; people don't die and somehow get permanently attached to their clothes and wander around scratching people and ****ing with resturant lights.

perkeyone 09-21-2007 05:37 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coberst (Post 1795630)
Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning

A large percentage (studies suggest over 90%) of the meaning we derive from communication, we derive from the non-verbal cues that the other person gives.

How does one communicate with an unseen audience that can be anybody in the world? In face-to-face communication there is so much information about the audience at hand that does not exist on the Internet.

Does one use language for the 12 year old, or the 18 year old, or the 25 year old, the educated, the non-educated? How to speak coherently to the 12 year old while not infuriating the 18 year old and how to mold an essay for the 30 year old without losing the 18 year old.

People who write books have editors to act as a third party who understands the material and understands the anticipated audience.

How do I, who have been studying the matter at hand for months and even years, know what words to provide a parenthetical definition that some may need but others may consider to be condescending?

Anti-intellectualism (opposing or hostile to intellectuals or to an intellectual view or approach) is so prevailing in the United States that almost every reader has a strong anti-intellectual bias that they are completely unconscious of. This anti-intellectual bias constantly inhibits their effort to read anything that smacks of being ‘intellectual’.

People might pay me money to lecture them on the proper way to swing a golf club but to lecture anyone on matters intellectual is pompous (excessively elevated or ornate—having or exhibiting self-importance).

are you referring to the way people respond to the things that you post on the forums?

devonin 09-21-2007 08:53 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
People respond to what he posts in the way they do for a number of reasons:

1/ He is wordy for the sake of being wordy instead of communicating effectively
2/ He posts identical threads on a half dozen forums to the extent that it looks like he might actually be a bot
3/ When he does respond in threads it is again, identical across multiple forums, in many cases only making sense in the context of one of them.

If he isn't a bot, he is someone who gives the individuals on each site pretty much no respect, certainly not enough respect to actually give them direct answers dealing with what they've posted.

Tokzic 09-21-2007 09:22 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
It's kind of sad that I have a 100% rate of guessing coberst thread titles to non-coberst thread titles.

devonin 09-21-2007 09:27 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
It isn't very difficult though.

tsugomaru 09-22-2007 12:17 AM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
This is hardly CT. You should realize that the only form of communication is not through words. Although it is a form of communication, there are others such as facial expression, tone, and body language.

I remember reading a long time ago while doing my communications merit badge that the words you say make up less than 15% of what you actually have to say. Your tone and facial expression makes up a good 30% and body language pretty much tells you the rest.

This is why communicating over the Internet is not perfect. You can't tell if someone is being sarcastic when in real life, they obviously are or the tone of things you have to say. In games, I've found out it's helpful to end my sentences with some form of a smiley to give some "tone" to what I say. The messages "YOU'RE BEING SLOW, HURRY UP >=[" has a different connotation from "YOU'RE BEING SLOW, HURRY UP ;D". In the first example, the unhappy smiley gives a kind of impatient pissed-off tone while in the winking smiley, the feeling is a bit lighter.

~Tsugomaru

perkeyone 09-22-2007 01:49 AM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
NO **** ;)

coberst 09-22-2007 04:00 AM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by perkeyone (Post 1795899)
are you referring to the way people respond to the things that you post on the forums?

yes

devonin 09-22-2007 04:31 AM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
If Coberst posted like someone who actually gave the first indication that he a) Even saw what people said in response or b) Actually cared what people said in response, I bet he'd have a much warmer welcome.

As it is, people are in rather in-depth discussion trying to decide if he's a bot or just an asshat.

coberst 09-22-2007 09:00 AM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
The following is a reply from a reader.

Below is a link to a very good book that you may enjoy, written by Richard Hofstadter. This book is multifaceted and the title is somewhat misleading (chosen to induce book sales no doubt) as the theme of the book is very broad and includes an excellent analyses of education in America, with the main thesis an analyses of the American Character from the founding of the Nation to the “present day”. The book won the 1964 Pulitzer Prize for non-fiction and deservedly so. I highly recommend it.

http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellect...=hypographycom

If we never stretch our intellect by learning new words and new ideas we confine our experience of this marvelous world and all its complications. If you comprehend something after one reading you have wasted your time because you have read something you already know.

Chrissi 09-22-2007 09:46 AM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coberst (Post 1796828)
If we never stretch our intellect by learning new words and new ideas we confine our experience of this marvelous world and all its complications. If you comprehend something after one reading you have wasted your time because you have read something you already know.

What a load of nonsense. I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. If I understood it the first time, it was well-written, and it has nothing to do with whether I already knew the content or not. Believe it or not, content is a separate thing from wording. Here are two sentences:

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.

The fox, which was somewhat of a bright auburn colour, had a passing idea that perhaps he ought to leap over the canine laying at his feet; but before the idea passed, he acted upon it, and leapt before he looked, and in his success, he landed on the other side of the dog, much as a chicken would cross a road.

Now, does the second sentence actually SAY anything more than the first? No. They both have the same content. However, the second is awkwardly worded. The first is a much better sentence. It says what it's trying to say, instead of trying to be fancy. You seem to forget that language is PRIMARILY a means of communication, and if you can't communicate something effectively, the purpose is lost.

In other words, screw off.

coberst 09-22-2007 01:10 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
Goodness!!

devonin 09-22-2007 02:04 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrissi
You seem to forget that language is PRIMARILY a means of communication, and if you can't communicate something effectively, the purpose is lost.

QFT


Coberst, you also seem to forget that this forum is PRIMARILY for the playing of and discussion of an online flash game based upon DanceDanceRevolution, whose playerbase is on average between the age of 13-18.

That there was a Critical Thinking forum at all was surprising to me when I signed up, and while we do have several posters who've recieved some formal training in the field (Myself, Kilroy_X, Chrissi etc) the vast majority of the userbase has not.

As such, you need to pay a little more attention to the audience of your posts. When you have the -identical- post on a very formal and intellectualized philosophical debate forum, and a forum about a game where you press arrow keys in time to the music, I think it is safe to say that you either aren't capable or aren't inclined to actually adjust the content of your topics to match the setting in which you propose them.

Burying an easy and simple point under a mound of useless verbiage neither strengthens your argument or makes you look intelligent, unless you equate looking pompous and self-absorbed with looking intelligent.

Respond to people's questions in a direct way that actually suggests you are both reading -and- comprehending what they say, instead of simply posting more logorrhea.

Take part in some threads that weren't started by you, instead of acting like you simply don't care about what anyone says who isn't named Coberst or talking to Coberst.

You've posted nowhere but CT, You've played no games of FFR, You've added no information to your profile. In other words, you are using this site for -nothing- except making your own threads, bumping your own threads, and responding to yourself.

As long as that continues to be your only purpose here, I'd continue to expect a chilly reception. We have a community here, one with a great sense of itself. You're standing on a hill, bellowing down into the town such that even when we can here you, nothing you say is so fascinating that we want to go up your hill to your little ivory tower to let you keep talking at us.

Master_of_the_Faster 09-22-2007 03:09 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin (Post 1797111)
QFT


Coberst, you also seem to forget that this forum is PRIMARILY for the playing of and discussion of an online flash game based upon DanceDanceRevolution, whose playerbase is on average between the age of 13-18.

That there was a Critical Thinking forum at all was surprising to me when I signed up, and while we do have several posters who've recieved some formal training in the field (Myself, Kilroy_X, Chrissi etc) the vast majority of the userbase has not.

As such, you need to pay a little more attention to the audience of your posts. When you have the -identical- post on a very formal and intellectualized philosophical debate forum, and a forum about a game where you press arrow keys in time to the music, I think it is safe to say that you either aren't capable or aren't inclined to actually adjust the content of your topics to match the setting in which you propose them.

Burying an easy and simple point under a mound of useless verbiage neither strengthens your argument or makes you look intelligent, unless you equate looking pompous and self-absorbed with looking intelligent.

Respond to people's questions in a direct way that actually suggests you are both reading -and- comprehending what they say, instead of simply posting more logorrhea.

Take part in some threads that weren't started by you, instead of acting like you simply don't care about what anyone says who isn't named Coberst or talking to Coberst.

You've posted nowhere but CT, You've played no games of FFR, You've added no information to your profile. In other words, you are using this site for -nothing- except making your own threads, bumping your own threads, and responding to yourself.

As long as that continues to be your only purpose here, I'd continue to expect a chilly reception. We have a community here, one with a great sense of itself. You're standing on a hill, bellowing down into the town such that even when we can here you, nothing you say is so fascinating that we want to go up your hill to your little ivory tower to let you keep talking at us.

Yeah, no offense but I really don't understand more than half of what you say or really wish to even contribute anything to your threads. Of course, it's not because I'm "stupid" or "retarded", but because I haven't actually studied or learned enough to comprehend certain things. Even if my thoughts are sometimes complicated, I feel as though the diction and communication I use is suited for the audience here (except when people claim that I build "blocks of text" or the "Second Great Wall of China"

devonin 09-22-2007 03:16 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
My point is: That is -all- he does. That is not all I do. I target certain things squarely at Kilroy and other trained philosophers, and some things I don't.

Engler 09-22-2007 03:42 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
That is not to say, however, that gamers can't be intelligent <_<.

devonin 09-22-2007 05:37 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
Quote:

Yeah, no offense but I really don't understand more than half of what you say or really wish to even contribute anything to your threads. Of course, it's not because I'm "stupid" or "retarded", but because I haven't actually studied or learned enough to comprehend certain things.
Further: There is a huge difference between "I don't understand what you're saying, because you're referencing concepts I just haven't happened to have studied" and "I don't understand what you're saying because even though I'm familiar with the subject, you write in such a vague way that I actually just can't unpack the meaning of your words"

infinity. 09-22-2007 06:20 PM

Re: Anti-intellectualism inhibits learning
 
It's not really that vague.
He just has an exceptional vocabulary.
Which is what you are obviously lacking.


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