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-   -   What is the truth of sex genders? (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=64800)

Laotian_Vampires 04-5-2007 10:13 PM

What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Is true that males cannot live without females? Obviously yes, but this is critical thinking. Do not post, no, because females and males need to reproduce. No, please do not post that. I want to know is there another reason for males and females living in this world.
Please do not post anything that involves:
Females do the house work, take care of the children, and Males do the hard labor and go be presidents, yada yada. We already know that, please reply with something worth discussing.

Squeek 04-5-2007 10:25 PM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
If you're asking if males can be deserted on an island and survive without women, then that's pretty obvious.

In fact, I've already done it. Three weeks of it.

But to be totally frank, humankind needs other people to rely on for everything we do. It just so happens the most common bond people share is between a man and a woman.

A pirate ship with a captain and no crew is not a pirate ship.

blindreper1179 04-5-2007 10:36 PM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
very well put by mr. squeek

Billydude 04-5-2007 10:42 PM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
I think males and females need eachother in life, but I don't think an individual male can not survive with females. Squeek puts it almost perfectly.

And also, in CT threads people are supposed to post there opinions. Telling them not to post something can restrict them from posting there opinions.

meiloyn 04-5-2007 11:35 PM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
No, because the men will get really horny, and all the heterosexual ones will kill themselves because they can't get any.

~*~

Being serious:

An individual male may be able to survive without any females, in my opinion, but his life quality might be very limited. Since humans were meant to interact with each and divide jobs equally among the two sexes, A male with a female may be better relaxed than a male with no female.

Same thing for females with males.

Kilroy_x 04-7-2007 12:44 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Human beings are biologically adapted to a two gender existence, including variants along the usual bell curves of physicality and attraction. At the same time human beings are also the most adaptive animals on the planet, and biological entities are by definition adaptable in the grand scheme of things. Our adaptability as human beings keeps us as human beings though, whereas evolutionary adaptation would perhaps make us different things.

Chrissi 04-7-2007 01:13 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x (Post 1428875)
Human beings are biologically adapted to a two gender existence

You mean sex. We don't have biological genders, and saying that we are biologically one gender or another is a very closed-minded western point of view.

Kilroy_x 04-7-2007 01:17 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Wow, not reading an entire post is one thing but not reading an entire SENTENCE!? I'm impressed!

But hell, it's possible you meant something you just failed to articulate. Human beings most certainly do have biological genders, in any number of different senses. Sometimes the lines blur, and sometimes some attributes of one gender are present and others are absent, but always as a result of the interplay of definable biological categories.

Chrissi 04-7-2007 01:45 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x (Post 1428963)
Wow, not reading an entire post is one thing but not reading an entire SENTENCE!? I'm impressed!

But hell, it's possible you meant something you just failed to articulate. Human beings most certainly do have biological genders, in any number of different senses. Sometimes the lines blur, and sometimes some attributes of one gender are present and others are absent, but always as a result of the interplay of definable biological categories.

I read the post. I chose the part that was most relevant, to quote.

Humans do not have biological genders. This is a flawed and western view. Gender is a social phenomenon. I think you mean sex. To quote wikipedia:

Gender in common usage refers to the sexual distinction between male and female. Although ‘gender’ can commonly be used interchangably with ‘sex’, within the academic fields of cultural studies, gender studies and the social sciences the term ‘gender’ refers to a social construction rather than a biological condition.

I am assuming since this is critical thinking we'd prefer to use the academic definition rather than the slang one?

RPGFREAK 04-7-2007 01:54 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by meiloyn (Post 1425778)
No, because the men will get really horny, and all the heterosexual ones will kill themselves because they can't get any.

~*~

In that case virgins after reaching a certain age are doomed to commit suicide and prison inmates shouldn't worry about 'dropping the soap'.


Quote:

An individual male may be able to survive without any females, in my opinion, but his life quality might be very limited. Since humans were meant to interact with each and divide jobs equally among the two sexes, A male with a female may be better relaxed than a male with no female.

Same thing for females with males.
I personally don't believe men and women have "jobs". The only jobs I can think of involve the conception, birth, and general wellfare of a child before they are physically & mentally capable of taking care of themselves. Beyond that the jobs, as you so call them, are elective. It not a man's job to 'bring home the bacon' nor is it a woman's job to take care of the household.

To answer the question, men only need women as a survival tool of the gender as a whole & the human race.

YoEr13 04-7-2007 02:21 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Well, men and women could live separately forever, however, they would never evolve. Because of this the human race could never survive. In the end no they couldn't, but in a short term yes they could. It just depends on how long they are going to be apart.

That was a little broad but it gets my thought out good enough.

Kilroy_x 04-7-2007 02:24 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrissi (Post 1429030)
Gender in common usage refers to the sexual distinction between male and female. Although ‘gender’ can commonly be used interchangably with ‘sex’, within the academic fields of cultural studies, gender studies and the social sciences the term ‘gender’ refers to a social construction rather than a biological condition.

Right, and society is an effect tracable purely to biology, so if we're mincing hairs here...

Quote:

I am assuming since this is critical thinking we'd prefer to use the academic definition rather than the slang one?
Sure, I apologize, I wasn't aware of how the word was being used. Nevertheless, in a more abstract manner biology remains the root and sole cause of gender.

Lamoc 04-7-2007 02:44 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Both races CAN live without one another. Cloning and such have been invented. The other sex doesn't HAVE to be there. Besides that theres not much a question here.

jamuko 04-7-2007 04:01 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamoc (Post 1429144)
Both races CAN live without one another. Cloning and such have been invented. The other sex doesn't HAVE to be there. Besides that theres not much a question here.

Wait... both "races"? XD I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at that.

Kilroy, I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with calling it purely biological... obviously society is largely an environmental system, practically unrelated to biology other than the fact that it sprung from biological creatures, but that's making quite a generalization. Grouping the two together makes any argument of nature vs. nurture pointless.

chickendude 04-7-2007 10:00 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
The only difference between the genders is sex, and societal implications caused by sex.

Ignoring sex, there is really no difference between males and females sociologically.

Chrissi 04-7-2007 10:02 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x (Post 1429114)
Right, and society is an effect tracable purely to biology, so if we're mincing hairs here...



Sure, I apologize, I wasn't aware of how the word was being used. Nevertheless, in a more abstract manner biology remains the root and sole cause of gender.

You're the only one "mincing hairs" here. Gender and sex are completely different things. In western culture we're taught that they are the same, but they are not, and this is fact. To view them as inescapably identical is to hold this very closed-minded concept. Gender is a spectrum, not a binary thing. You COULD argue that sex is binary, but it's not really either. And don't give me any chromosome crap. XX=female and XY=male are not the only two options - they are just the most common.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickendude (Post 1429462)
The only difference between the genders is sex, and societal implications caused by sex.

Ignoring sex, there is really no difference between males and females sociologically.

In some areas, yes. In other areas, no. You cannot say gender is tied to sex - it just tends to be, for us in the west, and in other countries as well. But not all places are like this. There is plenty of gender variation running amok.

Depending how long/whether you lived in India, and where you lived, you might remember the hijras.... (yes I know their condition is poor, but...) they are considered to be a third gender, though their sex is usually male. There are other societies with "third gender" constructs as well, mainly natives "two-spirited" people.

I'd just like to give some of you something to think about. If you think sex is tied to gender, think about this one: a very effeminate man. Now, in the west, we like to call these men "weird" or "gay" or "unnatural" or, depending how manly you are, "a threat to my own masculinity". But if this effeminate man fulfills all of our society's expected female gender roles, how can you call him a person of the male gender? Just because he has a penis? In some other cultures this sort of person would be considered a woman, or a person of a separate gender.

Gender is a combined effort of what society and ourselves consider our role to be. Gender is very hard to put a finger on if you aren't using biology - which you shouldn't be, because they are not alike. When a baby is born, does it have a gender? I'd say it does, to the extent that when the parents see that it has a certain genitalia, they will treat the baby differently. What's the big question when a baby's born (if you haven't yet determined it with ultrasound)? "Is it a girl or a boy?" We place so much emphasis on which sex the baby is that we forget that it does not determine the child's gender, apart from how we treat the child. Sometimes, treating a child as a certain gender can cause them to believe they are of that gender. But other times, the child "knows" this doesn't feel right, and seeks to define their own gender identity. Thus, it is a combined effort on the part of the self and society.

Kilroy_x 04-7-2007 11:38 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamuko (Post 1429277)
Kilroy, I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with calling it purely biological... obviously society is largely an environmental system, practically unrelated to biology other than the fact that it sprung from biological creatures, but that's making quite a generalization. Grouping the two together makes any argument of nature vs. nurture pointless.

The point is that it makes arguments over nature vs. nurture pointless, because nurture is a function of nature. The generalization holds because there are no other pecrceivable factors in how human beings operate other than their biological nature and their cognitive processes, which are part of their biological nature, simply the most maleable part.

Kilroy_x 04-7-2007 11:42 AM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrissi (Post 1429465)
You're the only one "mincing hairs" here.

Perhaps you are using a non-standard definition of the term mincing hairs...

Quote:

Gender and sex are completely different things.
According to the new definition, yes. I'm not sure how this is relevent as I've already stated I was using the word in a different way.

Quote:

In western culture we're taught that they are the same, but they are not, and this is fact. To view them as inescapably identical is to hold this very closed-minded concept.
k.

Quote:

Gender is a spectrum, not a binary thing. You COULD argue that sex is binary, but it's not really either. And don't give me any chromosome crap. XX=female and XY=male are not the only two options - they are just the most common.
Yeah, ok. Thanks for going off on me about things I already know on the basis that I misused a word.

Lamoc 04-7-2007 01:31 PM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamuko (Post 1429277)
Wait... both "races"? XD I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at that.

Kilroy, I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with calling it purely biological... obviously society is largely an environmental system, practically unrelated to biology other than the fact that it sprung from biological creatures, but that's making quite a generalization. Grouping the two together makes any argument of nature vs. nurture pointless.

Haha, yeah I call'em races. If you say sexs then the immature kids are like "omg sex?!"

wilker 04-7-2007 01:56 PM

Re: What is the truth of sex genders?
 
I might jsut be an idiot here, but aren't there more differences twixt males and females' physiology than their distinct reproductive organs? For example, male bodies produce testosterone and female bodies produce estrogen, these hormones affect how the body thinks, feel and developes?


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