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-   -   War: A piece of cake--for America (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=50374)

coberst 09-22-2006 01:43 PM

War: A piece of cake--for America
 
War: A piece of cake—for America!

America has 1.4 million in the military with 900,000 Reserves. All of these are hired-hands; all are volunteers seeking a job. Of these, 42 % are racial or ethnic minorities. Of these, 6.5% have had “some kind of exposure to college education”.

The economy today fights the war in Afghanistan and Iraq at a cost 0.1% of what the economy had to pay to win WWII; this figure is based upon Defense Department budget being 4% of GDP.

Thus says David M. Kennedy “In the Fourth of July debate about the state of American democracy, Kennedy, a historian at Stanford, suggested that war making was becoming too easy for American policy makers.” This article appeared in “The Atlantic” magazine.

Kennedy didn’t mention the wealth this war effort has brought to these self-same industrial leaders who influence public policy. Also he did not mention that most, if not all, of funds on Iraq and Afghanistan war is borrowed money.

TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons 09-22-2006 02:42 PM

Re: War: A piece of cake--for America
 
Well, I'm sure we all already knew that the war going on is complete bullshit for profit.

GuidoHunter 09-22-2006 02:57 PM

Re: War: A piece of cake--for America
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jewpinthethird (Post 150218)
1. Only post if you can contribute something to the topic/debate. This means no more: "What <insert name> Said" , or "I agree/disagree".

4. Since this is a Critical Thinking Forum use evidence to back up your statement if needed. This means no more: "The Bible says so." Actually find the verse that says so (just an example).

Go for it, Rai. You so love stating your opinion as fact in clear violation of the rules, so how about you support it?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

talisman 09-22-2006 04:54 PM

Re: War: A piece of cake--for America
 
can't really compare world war two to Iraq and Afghanistan. Especially comparing how much it cost to WIN wwii and how much it is now costing to LOSE Iraq and Afghanistan.

Here's my thoughts, in succint form, about the current wars.

1) Why we went in.

Some like to say that it's not important to argue about why we went in, that it's more important to decide what to do now. In my opinion, both issues are both important, and we should not dismiss one or the other, and should focus are energies on understanding both.

Now

We went in ostensibily because Iraq was a clear and imminent danger to the united states. Imminent. this word is important. In addition, it was claimed that

A) Iraq possessed and was attempting to make weapons of mass destruction.
B) Iraq had clear ties to al Qaeda.
C) Saddam Hussein is an evil dictator and committed genocide on his people.

Now, not only did A and B turn out to be incorrect, they also were never connected to the overarching reason, which was the imminence and clarity of the threat to the united states. What if they did have wmd... does this mean they are used necessarily against us or our allies? No, it does not necessarily mean that. In fact, by looking at the historical evidence of Saddam's regime, it's clear that Saddam had no intention of attacking the US, nor could he have. He was far more interested in pursuing regional power, hence wars with Iran and Kuwait. In addition, while he might not have liked us very much, he probably wouldn't be stupid enough to provoke us (by for example attacking Israel). And considering how much pressure we and the UN had on him at the time, it's doubtful he could have. What's my point? Even if Saddam did have WMD, which he didn't, he was not an IMMINENT nor a CLEAR threat to the security of the united states, and going to war with him is therefore fundamentally incorrect.

And don't say "well he was a bad guy. getting rid of him is good." no ****. but kim jong il is bad. the president of Iran is bad. Fidel Castro is a huge dick. But I strongly do not believe it is the place of the united states (acting by itself, essentially) to take down whom it believes arbitrarily to be "evil".

2) The conduct of the war.

This is honestly laughable, and I don't know why Bush didn't accept Rumsfeld's resignation.

A) Look at how we secured Germany and Japan. Granted, those were different countries with perhaps less internal divisions in their populace, but we were far more successful there. Why? MORE TROOPS. We did not go into Iraq with nearly enough troops. In Germany and Japan, the country was dearmed by systematic sweeps of the allied nations. We should have gone in with ten times the troops, absolutely swept the country clean of weapons (instead of leaving military weapons depots completely unguarded for months, resulting in the large caches of insurgent weaponry now faced) and secured the borders.
B) Rumsfeld and his DoD cohorts COMPLETELY ****ed up when predicting what would happen after the completion of combat operations. There was a sense that the troops would be greeted as heroes (and for a short period of time, this was true). But the people themselves did not unite, and how the DoD thought that a nation (arbitrarily created by British imperialism) with such disparate religious factions would simply all rejoice together and blossom into democracy with little conflict and US oversight is beyond me.
C) The national army was disbanded why??? This was retarded. you keep the army in tact, perhaps removing generals or whatever, and use them as a peacekeepers, instead of demolishing the army and then trying to rebuild it from scratch.

3) What we should do now

I'm not an expert on Iraq. But here's what I think we need.

A) More troops. Yeah I'm a liberal. But I'm not retarded either. The only way to establish security is more good guys with guns. (whether they're Iraqi forces or american).
B) Infrastructure. Offer the unemployed in Iraq jobs working to rebuild the damaged infrastructure. Especially but not limited to water, electric, and oil.
C) Consider federalism or separate statehood. this may not be feasible for the Sunni and Shia, but I don't see why Kurds couldn't form their own state in the north. Kirkuk would be the biggest problem there.
D) If sectarian violence spreads out of baghdad and the government itself falls into civil war, then get the hell out. No need for the US to be caught in a crossfire. Once things settle down, go back in, but this time do it with full support from the UN and lots and lots of european troops and aid.

4) Afghanistan.

The Taliban are back. Opium is the only profitable crop. Karzai has lost popularity and is seen as an american puppet. whoops.

oh and

5) Pakistan.

That's where Bin Laden is. Tell Musharraf to quit being a pussy and let some american operatives in.

TheRaiRaiEatsBalloons 09-22-2006 06:44 PM

Re: War: A piece of cake--for America
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter (Post 906694)
You so love stating your opinion as fact in clear violation of the rules

could be
Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter (Post 906694)
so how about you support it?

Maybe when I have an actual reason to spend my time doing so. I won't waste my time arguing seriously with the sort of idiots who would deny that the US's leaders are profiting from the war.


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