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-   -   Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion] (http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=43166)

drake_legendz 06-3-2006 10:34 AM

Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
This is a top many of you most likely won't like due to the fact that it questions our creation and religion.




It's a question men have ponderd since we first learnt that space was a vast emptiness that seemed to go on forever, ARE we alone in the whole of space or is there other sentiant life forms out there. One thing that comes to my mind is that it might be possible. What if gods really were not gods after all, what if in fact they were a very advanced race of lifeforms who discovered our low tech planet and it's simple lifeforms....Think about it. It is said in the Christian bible that god (or was it jesus? I don't know im not christian) came down on a chariot of fire. What if in fact this "chariot" was really a landing pod from the life forms space ship? I for one have a hard time beleive that we are the only life forms in the whole vastness of space. Heres something else to think about. What if humans were just a science project thet got out of hand for a more advanced race of beings that we thought wer really gods? Would it not explain why they no longer have contact with us? The christians beleive that god created the world in seven days. Maybe it was created in seven days but not by a god.

MCRenaissance 06-3-2006 01:46 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
The universe is huge. Sure there might be other life forms out there but it is highly unlikely. I'm not going to go through this by the religion form but scientifically. How we managed to be was an event that was a one in a million shot. For something like this to happen else where is highly unlikely. I don't believe in creationism. I understand why other people do but I don't. My whole family is very religious but I would rather believe in facts.

GuidoHunter 06-3-2006 01:50 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
One, this has been done a billion times in CT. I'll sum up the answer: the universe is too grand for us to be the only living organisms. It's possible that we are, but not very. Everything you speak of regarding aliens cannot be debated because it's practically a scientific construct.

Two, could you give verse numbers for that chariot of fire line?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

lord_carbo 06-3-2006 03:24 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Other inhabitable planets with life are probably the way nature intended for the Earth to be in the first place before humans came along, and even then, it's quite doubtful that any civilized lifeforms are able to travel across millions of lightyears to explore and conquer other places. They're probably NOTHING like the stereotyped aliens in the movies.

Suzuru 06-3-2006 03:33 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Other intelligent life-forms exist without a doubt. The universe is too big for that not to be possible. We do exist, just that fact alone should be proof enough.
As for aliens traveling across millions of light years. Just because we can't envision it, doesn't mean it's not true. "Teh aliens might have had a lot more time to develop both tech, bio or whatever uncomprehensible way to achieve means of interstellar, dimesion, time, whatever travel. Who knows there might be 11 dimensions for all we know... heh"

Reach 06-3-2006 06:31 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MCRenaissance
How we managed to be was an event that was a one in a million shot.

Oh really? And this statistic was found where?

Not to mention, even if this statistic was true, which it is not, then there should be billions or even trillions of planets with life on them.

The question isn't if, I'd say it's where, and how. The idea of life on other planets is very intriguing. Too bad I won't be around thousands of years from now to see if we ever make contact.

drake_legendz 06-3-2006 07:52 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter
One, this has been done a billion times in CT. I'll sum up the answer: the universe is too grand for us to be the only living organisms. It's possible that we are, but not very. Everything you speak of regarding aliens cannot be debated because it's practically a scientific construct.

Two, could you give verse numbers for that chariot of fire line?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

No guido I can't sorry as I said I don't beleive in religeon I just rember hearing about it in morals class. I beleive in facts and figures not storys and fiction. I do beleive there are other life forms out there like us. We most likely havin't seen any because (don't mean to sound idiotic but its a possiblity and this is just something that helps explain) theres is a chance that they are like the vulcans form star trek. They don't beleive in meddling with under developed societys.On another note there are too many unexplained things built. IE the easter island heads, stone henge. It was impossible to be build for the time they were.

Patashu 06-3-2006 07:54 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Or perhaps we haven't seen them because, in fact, they AREN'T the super-advanced nanotech etc. society you'd like to think of them as?

BluE_MeaniE 06-3-2006 08:16 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drake_legendz
No guido I can't sorry as I said I don't beleive in religeon I just rember hearing about it in morals class. I beleive in facts and figures not storys and fiction. I do beleive there are other life forms out there like us. We most likely havin't seen any because (don't mean to sound idiotic but its a possiblity and this is just something that helps explain) theres is a chance that they are like the vulcans form star trek. They don't beleive in meddling with under developed societys.On another note there are too many unexplained things built. IE the easter island heads, stone henge. It was impossible to be build for the time they were.

What you're talking about is about as religious as you can get, as well as non-scientific.

Going "oh, aliens did it" is the same as "oh, god did it".

Triplex72 06-3-2006 10:17 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Did you watch this on Tv today? I did. Cant remember what channel, possibly The biography Channel Or Space. I dunno.

Grandiagod 06-4-2006 12:35 AM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
The universe hueg and old. The chances of life forming in another part of it are very likely. The statistics and odds almost demand it.

Patashu 06-4-2006 01:44 AM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Yes, the universe is indeed 'hueg'.

<.<

>.>

I'm sorry. I had to do it.

GuidoHunter 06-4-2006 02:42 AM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drake_legendz
No guido I can't sorry as I said I don't beleive in religeon I just rember hearing about it in morals class. I beleive in facts and figures not storys and fiction. I do beleive there are other life forms out there like us. We most likely havin't seen any because (don't mean to sound idiotic but its a possiblity and this is just something that helps explain) theres is a chance that they are like the vulcans form star trek. They don't beleive in meddling with under developed societys.On another note there are too many unexplained things built. IE the easter island heads, stone henge. It was impossible to be build for the time they were.

Wow, you cite hearsay and expect that to be worth something? Then you not-so-subtly insult religion with a rather smug attitude and still expect to be taken seriously? Sheesh, get out.

This forum is about critical thinking, not science fiction. Sure, aliens could look like vulcans, mold, or us. This is not critical thinking. What other potentially existent life forms postulate about us isn't worth squat in a discussion on extraterrestrial life. I already told you what the end result of EVERY debate on the subject is. That's it, at least without dragging religion into it. I'm trying to be scientific here, not religious. I'd have a scientific discussion if it hadn't been done a hundred times already. But you talk about what aliens could look like. I'll answer it: anything. You know why? Because there's no inkling of proof or suggestion that they could be one thing or another. Whether it be Vulcans or Klingons or anything else is WORTHLESS as a manner of fueling discussion.

Come back when you have something of value to discuss.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

mattyohh 06-4-2006 03:03 AM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Aliens exist, they're called mexicans.

drake_legendz 06-4-2006 08:33 AM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter
Wow, you cite hearsay and expect that to be worth something? Then you not-so-subtly insult religion with a rather smug attitude and still expect to be taken seriously? Sheesh, get out.

This forum is about critical thinking, not science fiction. Sure, aliens could look like vulcans, mold, or us. This is not critical thinking. What other potentially existent life forms postulate about us isn't worth squat in a discussion on extraterrestrial life. I already told you what the end result of EVERY debate on the subject is. That's it, at least without dragging religion into it. I'm trying to be scientific here, not religious. I'd have a scientific discussion if it hadn't been done a hundred times already. But you talk about what aliens could look like. I'll answer it: anything. You know why? Because there's no inkling of proof or suggestion that they could be one thing or another. Whether it be Vulcans or Klingons or anything else is WORTHLESS as a manner of fueling discussion.

Come back when you have something of value to discuss.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Guido please don't be moronic and read my post correctly I was not saying WHAT they look like I was taling about their mentality towards interfering with an under devolped society.Before you coment on somones posts please read the m troughly with an open mind. I know its hard for you but please try.

GuidoHunter 06-4-2006 02:06 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drake_legendz
Guido please don't be moronic and read my post correctly I was not saying WHAT they look like I was taling about their mentality towards interfering with an under devolped society.Before you coment on somones posts please read the m troughly with an open mind. I know its hard for you but please try.

And you apparently missed where I addressed that issue. I'll quote it again for your benefit, since you missed it last time: "What other potentially existent life forms postulate about us isn't worth squat in a discussion on extraterrestrial life."

How are those two things any different? What they look like and what they think aren't any different when we don't even know that they exist. All you're doing is theorizing, pulling ideas out of thin air based on ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Explain to me why that is worth discussing.

Your problem is that your mind is too open. You're thinking about things that have zero intellectual merit and then posting about it in a forum specifically designed to weed that kind of thinking out. Focus on something that can be intelligently discussed, please, because this topic certainly can't be.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

flamingspinach 06-4-2006 05:31 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
I'd just like to offer this: it is certainly possible that we are the only "intelligent lifeforms" in the universe. Now if there was evidence that at least two ecospheres developed independently of each other on different planets, then obviously we could assume there are millions of them out there. But as it is we only have ONE world as an example.

As Isaac Asimov said in The Gods Themselves, there are only four plausible numbers: 0, 1, 2, and infinity. This is extremely true in many things you see in the world. Either something doesn't exist, or it is a unique entity, or there are two ends of a spectrum / two opposing or opposite entities, or there are a potentially infinite number of said entities.

Obviously there is at least one ecosphere, and having a dichotomous pair wouldn't make sense. So it's either one or potentially infinite, we cannot know for sure. Saying that it's statistically likely for intelligent life to have developed would be disregarding the HUGE number of "turns" in the probabilistic chain that led to the development of what we would call "intelligence". First protobionts had to arise, then prokaryotes, then eventually eukaryotes, which could then form multicellular organisms, which much later developed nerves, and finally brains, which then through natural selection became large, and finally through some unknown process gave rise to "intelligence" in humans. It is not clear that such a process would necessarily happen on another world.

Also remember the fallacy of assuming that since something happened it is likely. Once something has already happened its original probability could have been anything - for example, what if the odds of intelligent life developing on Earth were one out of 10^500? I'm willing to bet that's less than the reciprocal of the number of atoms in the universe. Nevertheless it did happen, and if that were actually the probability, it would be HIGHLY unlikely for it to have occurred again. We simply have no idea because we don't know how life formed. So please don't make blanket statements such as "it's just too unlikely that intelligent life didn't form somewhere else".

-fs

Suzuru 06-4-2006 05:43 PM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flamingspinach
I'd just like to offer this: it is certainly possible that we are the only "intelligent lifeforms" in the universe. Now if there was evidence that at least two ecospheres developed independently of each other on different planets, then obviously we could assume there are millions of them out there. But as it is we only have ONE world as an example.

As Isaac Asimov said in The Gods Themselves, there are only four plausible numbers: 0, 1, 2, and infinity. This is extremely true in many things you see in the world. Either something doesn't exist, or it is a unique entity, or there are two ends of a spectrum / two opposing or opposite entities, or there are a potentially infinite number of said entities.

Obviously there is at least one ecosphere, and having a dichotomous pair wouldn't make sense. So it's either one or potentially infinite, we cannot know for sure. Saying that it's statistically likely for intelligent life to have developed would be disregarding the HUGE number of "turns" in the probabilistic chain that led to the development of what we would call "intelligence". First protobionts had to arise, then prokaryotes, then eventually eukaryotes, which could then form multicellular organisms, which much later developed nerves, and finally brains, which then through natural selection became large, and finally through some unknown process gave rise to "intelligence" in humans. It is not clear that such a process would necessarily happen on another world.

Also remember the fallacy of assuming that since something happened it is likely. Once something has already happened its original probability could have been anything - for example, what if the odds of intelligent life developing on Earth were one out of 10^500? I'm willing to bet that's less than the reciprocal of the number of atoms in the universe. Nevertheless it did happen, and if that were actually the probability, it would be HIGHLY unlikely for it to have occurred again. We simply have no idea because we don't know how life formed. So please don't make blanket statements such as "it's just too unlikely that intelligent life didn't form somewhere else".

-fs

Just need a cingle celled whatever to start with, and many millions of years and you have intelligent life. Not like we are the only intelligent life on this planet, Dolphins for example are past the point of being just animals. Anyways, I get what you are saying but it sounds more farfetched than the theory of mine.

Patashu 06-5-2006 02:10 AM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Just? It's not exactly trival for even a single cellular organism to be.

flamingspinach 06-5-2006 02:14 AM

Re: Aliens? Existent or NON-existent [warning contains religion]
 
Uh, besides that, how can you even state that a single cell MUST by definition lead to intelligent life? What evidence could you POSSIBLY have to support that? Hell, scientists think there might have been bacteria on Mars at some point. We're pretty damn sure THAT never developed even into macrobiots, let alone intelligent life, and it certainly had millions of years (assuming it existed). And how can you even DEFINE intelligent life? All we have is ONE species, humanity, from ONE ecosphere on ONE planet. Sorry, but that's just ridiculous in the extreme. And as for your dolphin example, there is simply no way you can test their intelligence. (I assume by intelligence we are talking about sapience, of course.)


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